Re: pkgsrc (Was: NetBSD vs. FreeBSD)

[Vit Herman <dragvit%volny.cz@localhost>]

On Sun, 8 Feb 2009, David Brownlee wrote:

>         Could you feed back some suggestions on what is missing from
>         the pkgsrc guide? Even if you only list a few of the things
>         that caught you it can definitely help the next person trying
>         to use pkgsrc on an obscure platform.

I'm really shooting blindly here, I haven't touched pkgsrc on that box 
since christmas, but from what I remember (I might spell some variable 
names wrong, sorry):

a) USE_BUILTIN.whatever - this stuff is totally undocumented (unless you 
count some totally random bits of knowledge google can sometimes find) and 
some pretty basic stuff just won't build unless you use some of it. 
Finding it "easy" - it's all in one place (at least I think so - correct 
me if I'm wrong), but you have to know what to look for. How to use it is 
documented at IMHO totally inappropriate place, hidden at the very bottom 
of an obscure page that most pkgsrc users shouldn't have to read (after 
all, it's the developer section of the guide).

b) Same with other stuff affecting the build process like CONFIGURE_ARGS. 
This is an example of a variable I would expect to be explained the 5.2 
section of the guide - IMHO much more interesting than all that are listed 
there now. It is my understanding that using CONFIGURE_ARGS is the easiest 
way to disable some stuff that you don't need which breaks your build 
(unless you can use PKG_OPTIONS - which you most certainly can't precisely 
when you need to).

c) Upgrades suck bad. Real bad. Unless I'm completely blind, there's 
nothing in the guide about upgrading your system. It's really nice that 
one can upgrade individual packages, but the "upgrade all my outdated 
stuff" feature is among the most basic I would expect from a package 
management system.

One might say that this is not a documentation a problem, rather 
design/implementation/whatever flaw of pkgsrc. I think it's both - various 
people suggest various methods for upgrading your system but not a single 
one of them is documented in the guide - why? My guess is that because 
all of them suck partially - each of them has pros and cons, but all of 
them are bad or worse.

If I were looking for a major problem typical newcomer to netbsd has, this 
one would be near the top of the list. User who knows a bit about 
computers could probably deal with the present installer. But even very 
advanced users of netbsd can't find an universal solution to this. Why?

d) The guide is outdated in many places, especially in places describing 
using and bootstrapping pkgsrc on platforms other than NetBSD. Some of the 
documentation I would expect there can be found elsewhere - in netbsd wiki 
for example. But one of the fine things about netbsd was the fact that 
stuff is kept in one place, consistent and complete. So this is not a step 
in the right direction.

e) More step-by-step guides for complete idiots like me probably wouldn't 
hurt. Seriously, I know that figuring it out on your own has some 
advantages. But some stuff shouldn't be reinvented all over again. Upgrade 
problem mentoined above is a good example of what I think requires such 
instructions.

I'll stop here, because I can't seem to stay focused, it's late and I'm 
tired. Maybe all of the stuff I complain about is documented - but 
probably well hidden. Pkgsrc guide maybe a lot of thins, but not a handy 
reference. Finding stuff in it is a nightmare.

Enough rants for today I guess.

Best regards
Vit Herman