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Re: Desktop NetBSD needs your help

der Mouse <mouse%Rodents-Montreal.ORG@localhost> writes:

>> 2. It would be nice to have w3m in base system, so that user could
>> read the Guide without reboot or resorting to another machine.
>> 5. Having the way to install reasonable quality desktop system is a
>> big plus anyway, you can't do that with NetBSD right now.  Last time
>> I ran into the need of setting up such system, I spent unreasonably
>> long (by modern standards) time on it.
>> 6. Installation is still pretty hard, especially at fdisk/disklabel
>> step, the whole concept of BSD label is hard enough to novice users,
>> 9.2. In too many cases [...] forcing novice user into [...]
> I don't think NetBSD is appropriate for novice user desktop use, and I
> see that as about as much of a problem as it is that my hacksaw isn't
> appropriate for driving screws.  The world has plenty of screwdrivers;
> I'd much prefer NetBSD focus on making a good hacksaw (largely because
> I don't see anyone else making hacksaws nearly as good).

How do you expect new users to appear then? Do you think that NetBSD
users are born experts?

In particular, do you expect that newcomer learns the Guide by heart?
Is fdisk/bsdlabel documented that well, so that it can be learnt by
heart before installation? Is interface that good?

> Of course, like everyone else (well, except core/board/etc), I don't
> get to dictate which way NetBSD goes except to the extent I take it
> there.  This, I think, is largely why most of my comments about
> NetBSD's direction have been negative, because they've all been in
> response to people who want to change things, and what I think we need
> to do is to stop trying to change our direction and concentrate on
> doing well what we do well.  If you want a desktop system, you know
> where to find it - and I use that wording despite, not because of, the
> derogatory tone the original carried in its context.  (At work, I had
> occasion to set up a GUI desktop, and used FreeBSD; some would see this
> as a failing of NetBSD, but I don't, any more than I see it as a
> failing of my hacksaw that I don't reach for it to drive screws.)

Why do you resist changes? The world has changed since 90's.
Some things proved to be inefficient, even dangerous.
Do you think that we should leave inefficient ones as is
just because changes don't make you happy at once?

One of NetBSD advantages noted by newcomers is its high-quality
documentation, and it is documentation quality what can be checked
by novice users first. Without good documentation you can't tell,
why NetBSD is better than Linux.


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