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Why do we need lua in-tree again? Yet another call for actual evidence, please. (was Re: Moving Lua source codes)
- To: Marc Balmer <marc%msys.ch@localhost>
- Subject: Why do we need lua in-tree again? Yet another call for actual evidence, please. (was Re: Moving Lua source codes)
- From: Jeff Rizzo <riz%tastylime.net@localhost>
- Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 09:26:12 -0700
On 10/14/13 1:46 PM, Marc Balmer wrote:
It is entirely plausible to me that we could benefit from using Lua in
base, or sysinst, or maybe even in the kernel. But that argument must
be made by showing evidence of real, working code that has compelling
benefits, together with confidence in its robustness -- not by saying
that if we let users do it then it will happen.
There is real word, real working code. In userland and in kernel space.
There are developers waiting for the kernel parts to be committet, so
they can continue their work as well.
*Where* is this code? The pattern I see happening over and over again is:
NetBSD Community: "Please show us the real working code that needs this"
mbalmer: "the code is there!" (pointer to actual code not in evidence)
I do not doubt that something exists, but the onus is on the person
proposing the import to convince the skeptics, or at least to make an
actual effort. I see lots of handwaving, and little actual code. YEARS
after the import of lua into the main tree, I see very little in-tree
evidence of its use.
In fact, what I see is limited to :
1) evidence of lua bindings for netpgp.
2) evidence of some tests in external/bsd/lutok
3) the actual lua arc in external/mit/lua
4) gpio and sqlite stuff in liblua
5) some lua bindings in libexec/httpd ("bozohttpd")
6) two example files in share/examples/lua
7) the luactl/lua module/lua(4) stuff you imported yesterday
Am I missing something major here? The only actual usage I see is
netpgp and httpd; the rest is all in support of lua itself. I do not
see evidence that anyone is actually using lua in such a way that
requires it in-tree. When you originally proposed importing lua back in
2010, you talked a lot about how uses would materialize. It's now been
3 years, and I just don't see them. If I am wrong about this, I would
love some solid pointers to evidence of my wrongness.
Now you're using very similar arguments for bringing lua into the
kernel; I would very much like to see some real, practical, *useful*
code demonstrating just why this is a good thing. Beyond the 'gee,
whiz' factor, I just don't see it.
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