Why do we need lua in-tree again? Yet another call for actual evidence, please. (was Re: Moving Lua source codes)

[Jeff Rizzo <riz%tastylime.net@localhost>]

On 10/14/13 1:46 PM, Marc Balmer wrote:
> > It is entirely plausible to me that we could benefit from using Lua in
> > base, or sysinst, or maybe even in the kernel.  But that argument must
> > be made by showing evidence of real, working code that has compelling
> > benefits, together with confidence in its robustness -- not by saying
> > that if we let users do it then it will happen.
> There is real word, real working code.  In userland and in kernel space.
>   There are developers waiting for the kernel parts to be committet, so
> they can continue their work as well.

*Where* is this code?  The pattern I see happening over and over again is:

NetBSD Community: "Please show us the real working code that needs this"

mbalmer:  "the code is there!" (pointer to actual code not in evidence)


I do not doubt that something exists, but the onus is on the person 
proposing the import to convince the skeptics, or at least to make an 
actual effort.  I see lots of handwaving, and little actual code.  YEARS 
after the import of lua into the main tree, I see very little in-tree 
evidence of its use.

In fact, what I see is limited to :

1) evidence of lua bindings for netpgp.
2) evidence of some tests in external/bsd/lutok
3) the actual lua arc in external/mit/lua
4) gpio and sqlite stuff in liblua
5) some lua bindings in libexec/httpd ("bozohttpd")
6) two example files in share/examples/lua
7) the luactl/lua module/lua(4) stuff you imported yesterday

Am I missing something major here?  The only actual usage I see is 
netpgp and httpd;  the rest is all in support of lua itself.  I do not 
see evidence that anyone is actually using lua in such a way that 
requires it in-tree.  When you originally proposed importing lua back in 
2010, you talked a lot about how uses would materialize.  It's now been 
3 years, and I just don't see them.  If I am wrong about this, I would 
love some solid pointers to evidence of my wrongness.

Now you're using very similar arguments for bringing lua into the 
kernel;  I would very much like to see some real, practical, *useful* 
code demonstrating just why this is a good thing.  Beyond the 'gee, 
whiz' factor, I just don't see it.

+j