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Re: Enhancing ukbd for Apple notebooks

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On Nov 27, 2010, at 6:10 AM, Frank Wille wrote:

Michael wrote:

I completely agree that it is not nice, and I already thought about
turning the Alt/Option key into AltGr. But then we would miss Alt
NetBSD (which is used in various X11-based GUIs). The Apple/Command
on the other hand, are not needed.

In my opinion the keys should do what the label says, option should be
alt and the right option key should behave like the right alt key on
every other keyboard on the planet,

The label for the right alt key shows "Alt", not "AltGr". This means the
current wscons behaviour is wrong for Apple keyboards, as it turns the
right alt key into AltGr? I just verified that on my Apple Pro keyboard.

s/and/but ;)

The Command keys should probably become Meta.

Ok. So we don't swap any keys or change their meaning. Agreed.

That's what I meant, more or less.

But then the problem on Apple notebook keyboards, where you only have the
left Alt key, remains: Where is the AltGr key?

Either we use the right alt key since that's probably what (almost) everyone would expect, or, if I remember correctly, AltGr used to be more or less equivalent to Ctrl-Alt.

Without that key all users of non-US keymaps won't be able to type important
characters like |, \, @, [, {, ~.

In my opinion we should do what people would expect on a BSD/X11 box. If we were going to imitate OSX we'd have to do it consistently and that would mean things like ctrl-x/c/v vs. Cmd-x/c/v and so on. Since that's not really under our control we should try to be unixy not some weird mix of some OSXisms and unixisms.

A solution must be found.

To recap, my opinion is this:
- - keys should do what the label says, no shifting things around to match PC layouts - - we need AltGr, most people will expect it to be the right Alt key, so that should be the (hopefully only ) exception
- - left/right Command key should become left/right Meta
I think trying to emulate OSX is a bad idea since we can't do it consistently. Sure, we could do it in wscons but not really in X and kde/gnome/whatever.

have fun

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