Re: Definition of NetBSD users

[Marc Balmer <marc%msys.ch@localhost>]

Am 27.03.10 16:23, schrieb Jonathan Schleifer:
> Am 26.03.2010 um 23:09 schrieb Jeremy C. Reed:
> 
>> On Fri, 26 Mar 2010, Jonathan Schleifer wrote:
>>
>>>> I am not sure how FreeBSD exceeds NetBSD for desktop systems. Please
>>>> explain and share examples.
>>>
>>> They have working, stable, performant 3D drivers for NVidia cards. 3D
>>> on NetBSD is limited to the opensource AMD drivers, which still lack a
>>> lot.
>>
>> Proprietary drivers. See today's announcement from Nvidia:
>> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg/2010-March/049749.html.
>> The latest FreeBSD driver license is at:
>> http://www.nvidia.com/content/DriverDownload-March2009/licence.php?lang=us
>>
>>
>> - Can't have multiple backups.
>> - May not be used concurrently on different computers.
>> - Linux version allows redistribution, but FreeBSD is NOT Linux!
>> - No reverse engineering.
>> - You must use all components (can't separate or exclude).
>> - Can't rent out your system.
> 
> While the license sure is bad, it's the only way to get decent 3D
> graphics on a Unix system atm. Maybe we should ask them if they can
> expand the Linux exception to FreeBSD.

Maybe we should just stop using their crap and tell them in public that
they are morons.  It's that easy:  Don't buy Nvidia hardware.  And tell
your friends not buy Nvida crap either.

> 
> I think "may bot be used concurrently on different computers" is
> solvable by just downloading it on every machine instead of copying it.
> The "No reverse engineering" part is not valid in the EU, AFAIK. For
> renting your system, I think it works as long as you say you only rent
> your hardware.
> 
>> This ties into the other comments in this thread that I agree with:
>> "proprietary technologies shouldn't even be thought about in this
>> context".
> 
> In an ideal world, yes. But unfortunately, we don't live in an ideal
> world and proprietary stuff is required for many things. The situation
> with Flash is going to get better with HTML5 (hopefully). For the
> situation with 3G graphics, I have little hope. And without 3D graphics,
> even HTML5 won't help much, as it will be too slow without 3D acceleration.
> 
>>> For a modern desktop, you really need 3D acceleration, as users
>>> expect stuff like Compiz etc.
>>
>> I guess I don't fully understand and realize what I am missing :)
>>
>> What exactly is this feature or benefit that users "expect"? I assume
>> that something very noticable but I don't notice myself when watching
>> videos or using my desktop without 3D acceleration. Note I don't watch
>> videos often nor do I play any 3D games, so maybe I am not a good
>> example of what to expect regarding this. I don't have anything to
>> compare with to realize what I am missing. Examples would be great.
> 
> Well, even if you only watch videos, you might really want 3D
> acceleration in the future: Decoding of HD material puts high loads on
> the CPU, which can be done by the GPU with little load. Stuff like
> decoding two HD streams at the same time, like for example is done with
> Blurays which support picture in picture, is too much for a CPU - you
> will need the support of the GPU here. And a desktop user expects that
> he can watch HD videos with his system.
> 
> So, there are only two things NetBSD can currently do:
> 
> * Hope the AMD drivers will get better and that nouveau will replace the
> dropped nv driver.
> * Try to persuade NVidia to release their drivers for NetBSD or allow
> someone of the NetBSD team to port it (the FreeBSD driver was ported by
> FreeBSD developers)
> 
> -- 
> Jonathan
>