Re: release directories and naming for install images,liveimages,and isos

[Izumi Tsutsui <tsutsui%ceres.dti.ne.jp@localhost>]

dholland-current@ wrote:

> On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 11:14:42PM +0900, Izumi Tsutsui wrote:
>  > > > Who want bootable installatoin images without set files, for what?
>  > > 
>  > > For installing?
>  > > 
>  > > Again, if someone goes to ftp.netbsd.org they ought to be able to get
>  > > installer images for USB sticks as well as for CDs and for floppies.
>  > 
>  > Are you sure how many such users?
> 
> No. But I would consider it a regression to have to download a
> complete install just to get boot media.

Are you claiming any regression is not acceptable,
even if there is no user on it?

Even if there is a user, it's a completely acceptable regression
to wait an extra few minutes to download an image smaller than
YouTube video nowadays.

>  > > If you have a fast network connection there is no reason to copy any
>  > > more than necessary to the boot media.
>  > 
>  > What actually do you want?
>  > Install media without binary sets?
>  > Bootable (no installer) media?
>  > For what?
> 
> Install media without binary sets (hence, small) that can be used
> (like the current installer images) as rescue media as well.

For what?
For install, it doesn't save network bandwidth so much.
For rescue, live-image on a USB stick is much more useful.

>  > Is it worth to put effort to prepare extra images for such rare purpose?
>  > I don't and I won't work on it.
> 
> Did anyone ask you to?

Then I'd say no one think it's worth and no one will work on it.

>  > > Maybe the right thing to do is reorganize the way releases are posted
>  > > on nbftp. Right now (I'm looking at 6.0_BETA) the full CD images are
>  > > hidden away in another directory, so unless you know where to look or
>  > > happen to notice the "iso" directory mixed with the ports in
>  > > /pub/NetBSD/NetBSD-6.0_BETA, and realize it's not the name of a port,
>  > > the only installer images you find are the small ones. And sure
>  > > enough, there's floppy and cdrom images but no usb images.
>  > 
>  > If you claim bootable image without binary sets should be there
>  > because there are floppy and iso, I'd rather suggest to remove
>  > iso and floppy images without binary sets for consistency
>  > and less maintainablity.
> 
> ...so you want a 105-disk floppy installer? That isn't going to work
> and removing floppy install images entirely does not sound like a good
> idea.

It looks you are in "best or nothing syndrome" and always ignoring
users' benefits and our limited man power.

Our sparc port has already dropped floppy install images for
less maintainability.

There is no other distribution which provides install floppy images
for modern x86 machines.

Wasting limited resources for unused material is a bad idea.

> Anyway, we've long had small CD installers as well as full CDs and I'm
> sure they wouldn't have been added if nobody ever used them. I'm not
> sure why you're so adamantly opposed to this.

Such blind assumption could never be true in computing area
after time passed by.

The small bootcd images were added to provide an easy method
to see if NetBSD supports users's hardware, and
it was built during build.sh distribution to share the build
framework for both floppies and cdroms.
http://mail-index.netbsd.org/tech-install/2006/05/11/0001.html

In these days, live-image is much more useful for trial
(it provides multi user environment even with Xserver),
and no framework is shared with floppy build.

>  > > (I don't see any full usb-stick images either, fwiw. They're not in
>  > > the "iso" directory.)
>  > 
>  > It's releng's matter.  As you claim "build.sh release" don't
>  > prepare ISO with binary sets either.
> 
> Yes, it's largely releng's issue. riz is fixing it. What's your point?

You claimed you didin't see any full usb-stick images.
I explaind it was completely different issue from the point you claimed
in the PR, "lack of install-image without sets after build.sh release."

---
Izumi Tsutsui