Re: [HEADS UP] PKGTOOLS_REQD bump and related changes

[jnemeth%victoria.tc.ca@localhost (John Nemeth)]

On Oct 1, 10:47pm, Dieter Baron wrote:
} In article <200906160759.n5G7xZVm006426%vtn1.victoria.tc.ca@localhost> John 
wrote:
} : On Nov 6,  2:12am, Alistair Crooks wrote:
} : } On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 06:09:31PM -0700, John Nemeth wrote:
} : } > On Nov 5,  7:43pm, Alistair Crooks wrote:
} : } > } On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 10:30:42PM +0200, Joerg Sonnenberger wrote:
} : } > } > On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 09:19:43PM +0100, Alistair Crooks wrote:
} : } > } > > On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 09:46:43PM +0200, Joerg Sonnenberger 
wrote:
} : } > } > > > 
} : } > } > > > before the freeze I have commmitted the following large scale 
changes.
} : } > } > > > This can result in some fallout, so be warned:
} : } > } > > > 
} : } > } > > > (2) @dirrm
} : } > } > > > 
} : } > } > > > pkg_delete is performing automatic pruning of directories now. 
Empty
} : } > } > > > directories in packages can be requested by @pkgdir in the 
PLIST and
} : } > } > > > will be considered. As some packages had quite a bit of magic 
related
} : } > } > > > to @dirrm entries, there might be some fallout. I am running a 
bulk
} : } > } > > > build now to identify those issues.
} : } > } > > 
} : } > } > > Is the @dirrm directive not recognised any more, or is there an 
error or
} : } > } > > warning message attached?
} : } > } > 
} : } > } > It is silently ignored. The edge cases where it doesn't work are 
small
} : } > } > enough that I don't think a warning is justified.
} : } > } 
} : } > } Ah, right, silent ignorance - not really a good policy at any time,
} : } > } and especially not when it comes to adding an old binary package. 
} : } > } Forcing everyone to re-compile binary packages is a bit of a copout,
} : } > } isn't it?
} : } > 
} : } >      As I understand it, in the new world order, empty directories are
} : } > automatically removed, thus making @dirrm superflouous.  Since @dirrm
} : } > with current pkg_install is essentially a No-Op, what is the issue with
} : } > simply ignoring it?
} : } 
} : } I'm not sure how that gels with Joerg's statement above:
} : } 
} : }       "It is silently ignored.  The edge cases where it doesn't work
} : }       are small enough that I don't think a warning is justified."
} 
} :      Yes, the edge cases are something that we may need to hear more
} : about.
} 
}   The edge cases are packages that need an empty directory to exist,
} and another package (possibly a dependency) installes files into that
} directory.  Upon deinstall of the second pacakge, the directory is

     Ah, so these would be handled by the new @pkgdir directive.  Of
course, there will be a transition period before they get commonly
used.

} removed.  [Provided you use old binaries with new pkgtools.]
} 
}   These edge cases are few (I cannot think of one off the top of my
} head), and @dirrm in PLISTs are common.  If we warn about every
} @dirrm, the few interesting cases will be lost in the noise, as will
} other, useful, output.
} 
}   *Please* don't add it.  Al, can you remember the resistance your
} change to print each @{un,}exec being executed, that swamped the user
} with multiple screen fulls of output?
} 
} : } If things fail safe, then I wouldn't worry. They obviously don't, though.
} : } Why does it hurt anyone to print out an informative message about what is
} : } happening?
} 
} :      Informative message or useless noise?  Too much of either is just
} : confusing to end users.  It also tends to "train" end users to ignore
} : most of what they see, which means they miss important stuff when it
} : comes up.
} 
}   Totally agreed.
} 
} : } Come on, folks, this isn't difficult - have some consideration for users,
} : } please.
} 
} :      This is what I'm trying to do by having excess noise printed.
} 
}   I don't think you are doing our users any service by burying usefull
} messages in excess noise.

     Ugh!  Proof read failure.  Obviously given my comments about
useless noise above, this was meant to say, "This is what I'm trying to
do by NOT having excess noise printed."

}-- End of excerpt from Dieter Baron