Re: [HEADS UP] PKGTOOLS_REQD bump and related changes

[Dieter Baron <dillo%NetBSD.org@localhost>]

In article <200906160759.n5G7xZVm006426%vtn1.victoria.tc.ca@localhost> John 
wrote:
: On Nov 6,  2:12am, Alistair Crooks wrote:
: } On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 06:09:31PM -0700, John Nemeth wrote:
: } > On Nov 5,  7:43pm, Alistair Crooks wrote:
: } > } Subject: Re: [HEADS UP] PKGTOOLS_REQD bump and related changes
: } > } On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 10:30:42PM +0200, Joerg Sonnenberger wrote:
: } > } > On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 09:19:43PM +0100, Alistair Crooks wrote:
: } > } > > On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 09:46:43PM +0200, Joerg Sonnenberger wrote:
: } > } > > > 
: } > } > > > before the freeze I have commmitted the following large scale 
changes.
: } > } > > > This can result in some fallout, so be warned:
: } > } > > > 
: } > } > > > (2) @dirrm
: } > } > > > 
: } > } > > > pkg_delete is performing automatic pruning of directories now. 
Empty
: } > } > > > directories in packages can be requested by @pkgdir in the PLIST 
and
: } > } > > > will be considered. As some packages had quite a bit of magic 
related
: } > } > > > to @dirrm entries, there might be some fallout. I am running a 
bulk
: } > } > > > build now to identify those issues.
: } > } > > 
: } > } > > Is the @dirrm directive not recognised any more, or is there an 
error or
: } > } > > warning message attached?
: } > } > 
: } > } > It is silently ignored. The edge cases where it doesn't work are small
: } > } > enough that I don't think a warning is justified.
: } > } 
: } > } Ah, right, silent ignorance - not really a good policy at any time,
: } > } and especially not when it comes to adding an old binary package. 
: } > } Forcing everyone to re-compile binary packages is a bit of a copout,
: } > } isn't it?
: } > 
: } >      As I understand it, in the new world order, empty directories are
: } > automatically removed, thus making @dirrm superflouous.  Since @dirrm
: } > with current pkg_install is essentially a No-Op, what is the issue with
: } > simply ignoring it?
: } 
: } I'm not sure how that gels with Joerg's statement above:
: } 
: }       "It is silently ignored.  The edge cases where it doesn't work
: }       are small enough that I don't think a warning is justified."

:      Yes, the edge cases are something that we may need to hear more
: about.

  The edge cases are packages that need an empty directory to exist,
and another package (possibly a dependency) installes files into that
directory.  Upon deinstall of the second pacakge, the directory is
removed.  [Provided you use old binaries with new pkgtools.]

  These edge cases are few (I cannot think of one off the top of my
head), and @dirrm in PLISTs are common.  If we warn about every
@dirrm, the few interesting cases will be lost in the noise, as will
other, useful, output.

  *Please* don't add it.  Al, can you remember the resistance your
change to print each @{un,}exec being executed, that swamped the user
with multiple screen fulls of output?

: } If things fail safe, then I wouldn't worry. They obviously don't, though.
: } Why does it hurt anyone to print out an informative message about what is
: } happening?

:      Informative message or useless noise?  Too much of either is just
: confusing to end users.  It also tends to "train" end users to ignore
: most of what they see, which means they miss important stuff when it
: comes up.

  Totally agreed.

: } The worrying thing is the bit that has been deleted where we seem to have
: } migrated into a lower-case world, and suggestions on how to drag ourselves
: } out of the mire are dismissed as a "one-time change". Thomas has printed
: } out one case where it won't work at all.

:      Yes, it is a more worrying thing.  I thought your previous message
: about it covered the point nicely, which is why I didn't bother
: commenting on it, or including it again.

  Joerg, please make license name matching case-insensitive.

: } Come on, folks, this isn't difficult - have some consideration for users,
: } please.

:      This is what I'm trying to do by having excess noise printed.

  I don't think you are doing our users any service by burying usefull
messages in excess noise.

: }-- End of excerpt from Alistair Crooks

                                   yours,
                                   dillo