At Wed, 1 Oct 2025 21:52:15 +0100, Liam Proven <lproven%gmail.com@localhost> wrote:
Subject: Re: Upgrading from 10.0 to 10.1
>
> I blinked in surprise at this. Then how do
> you do it? This implies there are more
> methods.
Generally speaking there are often many different methods to upgrade
some systems. However they all boil down to a few basic requirements
that should be nearly the same for all modern, and many older, unix and
unix-like systems, including all the BSDs:
1. get the new kernel (and its extra bits, such as modules)
installed (and get it running, i.e. reboot after installing
it, unless you're already booted from separate bootable
media)
2. get the new base system binaries installed, ideally (still)
in single-user mode
3. apply any desired/necessary/helpful updates to configuration
files (and some databases), clean up old junk, etc., again
ideally still in single-user mode
4. return to multiuser operation (exit the single-user mode, or
reboot again)
5. optionally upgrade any add-on packages, also possibly while
in, or after returning to, single-user mode
> I am a bit bewildered here.
>
> I thought that one of the core advantages
> and "selling points" of the BSDs was that
> each is a complete OS developed by the
> same team -- as opposed to a Linux distro
> which isn't so much a piece of software as
> 30,000 pieces all flying in _extremely_
> close formation.
>
> Now you're telling me that I need to
> consider these things separately and
> manage them separately... Why?
I'm not sure what anyone has written so far would make you say all of
that. NetBSD comes with optional groups of things ("sets") in the base
system install -- however they are all developed and compiled and
shipped together as part of each release.
This should have been obvious from your first installation where you
were asked to choose which "sets" you wanted to install.
You originally wrote:
> But the menu options here suggested to me that I should pick full
> install regardless of what was already installed, and that might
> install a lot of extra things I did not have and fill my root
> partition.
However the menu doesn't say anything about any preferred choice! It
says exactly and only the following:
The NetBSD distribution is broken into a collection of distribution
sets. There are some basic sets that are needed by all
installations and there are some other sets that are optional. You
may choose to install a core set (Minimal installation), all of them
(Full installation), or a custom group of sets (Custom
installation).
┌─────────────────────────────┐
│ Select your distribution │
│ │
│>a: Full installation │
│ b: Installation without X11 │
│ c: Minimal installation │
│ d: Custom installation │
│ x: Abandon installation │
└─────────────────────────────┘
That seems very agnostic to me.
I don't see how you could read from that anything about how you "should"
pick a full install regardless.
The unwritten assumption is that one will upgrade with the same sets
that one previously installed from the last release.
As was hinted in another message it would be helpful if sysinst(8)
defaulted to automatically detecting what was previously installed, and
it would certainly be helpful for the documentation to say this more
explicitly.
There is a section in the INSTALL file on the installation media or in
the FTP directory, etc. that gives a detailed description of each of the
"sets" ("Binary distribution sets").
> I did not install anything
> additional. This was a clean, largely
> unused install of 10.0. No additions, no
> extra apps, nothing compiled, and never
> used except for a review.
That's OK.
As you read in "The NetBSD Guide" there are two well known and suggested
ways to upgrade NetBSD -- one comes with NetBSD (sysinst), and the other
is an add-on package. As you've learned here there are also a plethora
of ad-hoc methods also. For example I have a set of shell functions I
use to do the basic steps on my systems.
You don't say exactly how you tried to use sysinst(8).
The Guide is a little lax in describing exactly how to begin an upgrade,
though there is at least one strong hint:
To do the upgrade, you must have some form of bootable media
There's also a strong hint in sysinst(8):
It is usually invoked automatically when the system is booted from
appropriate installation media.
I also wonder if you followed the strong advice in The Guide and read
the INSTALL file:
Before doing an upgrade it is essential to read the release
information and upgrading notes in one of the INSTALL files: this is
the official description of the upgrade procedure, with platform
specific information and important details.
There's a section in the INSTALL file titled "Upgrading a
previously-installed NetBSD System".
To do the upgrade, you must have one form of boot media available.
So, the strong recommendation for using sysinst(8) is to use it from
bootable media, implying one boots the system from bootable media and
then makes use of sysinst (which is normally started automatically).
I guess The Guide, and the INSTALL file, and sysinst(8) should all be a
bit more explicit and actually say:
First, shut down your system cleanly and boot it from the bootable
media for the new release you want to upgrade to.
I strongly suspect you did not boot from bootable media to begin your
upgrade since if you had it would been much more difficult, next to
impossible by default, for you to have rebooted to the original 10.0
kernel.
The fact your upgrade took "hours" suggests some other things where also
very wrong in how sysinst(8) was set up and working -- the upgrade
should take less time than the original install took. With local sets
files already downloaded or on the bootable media it should take only a
few tens of minutes at most, probably far less time on that "venerable
Thinkpad W500" with an SSD!
"The NetBSD Guide" could be updated to describe how to do an upgrade
without booting from separate bootable media -- however this is where it
gets complicated if you're not running a stock system on bare hardware.
It also could lead to trouble if you don't use it in single user mode.
So the guide is technically the most correct in recommending that one do
upgrades by booting from bootable install media. Of course even that
won't work 100% for some kinds of virtualization environments, e.g. Xen.
Perhaps you do want to try a full reinstall of 10.0 and then another
upgrade to 10.1.
--
Greg A. Woods <gwoods%acm.org@localhost>
Kelowna, BC +1 250 762-7675 RoboHack <woods%robohack.ca@localhost>
Planix, Inc. <woods%planix.com@localhost> Avoncote Farms <woods%avoncote.ca@localhost>
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