Subject: Re: cgd and replay
To: Pawel Jakub Dawidek <>
From: David Maxwell <>
List: tech-security
Date: 08/22/2005 11:40:23
On Mon, 22 Aug 2005, Pawel Jakub Dawidek wrote:
> While your comments are valid and I appreciate them (I really do),
> I entered this discussion to actually find some secure and reliable
> way to provide device-level integrity verification with your help, guys.
> And this conversation could be even more productive, if you stop
> treating me as your enemy:)

There is a smiley there, so I recognize that you aren't 100% serious
about that accusation - however, it comes up from time to time, in
different forums, and I feel a need to vent ;-)

When you call a tech-support line, and the person on the other end asks
if your machine is plugged-in, turned-on, etc - do you feel that he is
treating you as the enemy?

No. It's just that you're the 1/1000 of the calls he gets where the
caller has a technical clue. The other 999 _need_ him to ask that
question. Likewise, the person staffing the call centre has set up those
scripts to address the needs of the many, which outweigh the needs of
the few...

Similarly, mailing lists receive lots of 'great ideas' from people who
are genuinely trying to help, but are out of their depth. Those out of
their depth generally don't understand that/why they are so.

In this case, it's also not that you're a FreeBSD committer instead of a
NetBSD one. Many NetBSD developers get their commit bits by working in
one area, but then want to branch out into another. They undergo the
same type of grilling that you just did, if they seem to be proposing
something that would be bad for the system, and a waste of developers'

So, when you _seem_ to be suggesting something that's a common mistake,
don't be surprised that it takes a little more effort to get the point

In summary - don't treat us as if we were treating you as the enemy ;-)

David Maxwell,| -->
Any sufficiently advanced Common Sense will seem like magic... 
					      - me