On Thu, 30 Dec 2004, Greg A. Woods wrote:

> > pkgsrc-wip committers are not responsible for GNATS.  Stop trying to imply
> > offloading responsibility in this way.
>
> I'm _not_ trying to offload responsibility -- certainly not from those
> who wish to accept it!

"Ah, but you are, Blanche, you are!"...

> I am trying to show you that by your own admission there's an apparently
> vast untapped resource that could be brought to bear

...Whether you think so or not, you *are* implying that pkgsrc-wip people
have some kind of responsibility to do anything other than contribute their
own packages.  This is simply not the case.

The whole point is that contributors who are submitting more than one
package should be using pkgsrc-wip directly to get more active exposure to
the package.  This provides the ability for the package to be updated
automatically when pkgsrc infrastructure changes, among other things, which
is yet another thing that just can't happen with gnats.

And yes, on occasion, pkgsrc-wip users have been encouraged to try pulling
in stuff from gnats.

> I'm also suggesting that the "encouragement" would be one hell of a lot
> stronger if it had some "privilege", even if only implied, to go along
> with it.  Would you and other developers rather be clerks transcribing
> the efforts of others into GNATS, or would you be better off delegating
> that responsibility to those doing the original work?

pkgsrc-wip *is* that delegation.  The end goal is to deprecate gnats as a
submission method for new packages because of all its drawbacks.  Anyone
submitting more than one package really should be using pkgsrc-wip.

Stop fixating on "find people to move gnats stuff to pkgsrc-wip" and think
about the desired goal.  If the deluge in gnats can be moved to a more
productive location, then it will be far more likely that we can find people
to move the remaining submissions out of gnats.

I fully expect pkgsrc-wip (or something like it, which might not be sf.net
hosted) to become the official method to submit new packages in the future.

> > You're just refusing to use it yourself
>
> Well, regardless of my reasons I'm clearly not the only one using GNATS
> to submit new packages, as per the official recommended way of doing so
> (or at least minor variants of it).

Yup, but tiddling away about how pkgsrc-wip isn't helping you because you
refuse to use it isn't helping those folks who have been actively using
pkgsrc-wip quite successfully.  Mumbling about how you can't be bothered to
do a little extra effort to make your submissions more visible and
updateable won't move gnats submissions into an active playpen, either.

> You can bash me all you want but all you're doing is further alienating
> all those who like me would prefer to continue using GNATS for pkgsrc.

Prefer what you want.  I'm pointing out the simple truth, that volunteer
time is volunteer time.  And if that volunteer time isn't accomplishing what
you want, well, "you get what you pay for."

> You can continue to ignore the offerings already in GNATS
  ...
> _SOMEONE_ _MUST_ keep an eye on new submissions arriving by way of GNATS!

We don't ignore them.  We just DON'T HAVE TIME to handle them all, and we
have no authority to foist that task onto others.

NetBSD and pkgsrc-wip are not corporations; they are comprised of volunteers
who use their time as they see fit.  Not you nor I nor anyone else can use a
"vast untapped resource" unless that resource is ready and willing to do
what we want.

That's reality.  I invite you to experience it sometime.

-- 
-- Todd Vierling <tv@duh.org> <tv@pobox.com>