Bill Stouder-Studenmund skrev:
> Not really.
> 
> I agree that things can really go down the drain. However if your system 
> is that bad off, why are you trying to use it to fix it?

I don't think I need to answer that question, do I? Isn't it obvious 
that it's because that's all I have.

> We have the /rescue tools for this purpose. We should add "pledit" to
> /rescue when we have it. vi is already there.

vi in /rescue is not really that useful sometimes. It needs the termcap 
database to do anything. And that isn't in /rescue, and probably 
shouldn't be there.

And sometimes the problem isn't with the tools, or any shared library, 
but with the kernel, or a bug in the code itself, which is propagated to 
/rescue as well as the normal place for the tool.

Actually, /rescue is of rather limited help most of the time. The only 
time when it helps is if a shared library is broken, or if you do an 
install of a new userland and leave /rescue alone, and the tool becomes 
broken. /rescue came around about the time when we moved /bin and /sbin 
to use shared libraries, as a solution to when those shared libraries 
fail. It's definitely not a solution for a lot of the problems you can 
stumble upon.

> Going further, if the system is so messed up that /rescue doesn't work, 
> use install media. Not to reinstall, but to boot a system that can work on 
> the ill system.

That is assuming that you have an install media. As I've said in the 
past, I play with VAXen mostly, and install media isn't really 
"appropriate" for a VAX-8650.
And the install program, even when you have such a media, isn't always 
working that good (for the VAX, once again).

So for me, being able to repair the system by other means than running 
install, or using /rescue is definitely still happening from time to 
time. And I hate thinking I'm the only one. How about embedded systems 
with no external devices for instance? Sure there will be ways to 
reinstall from scratch there too, somehow, but it might not always be 
the path you really want to go in some cases.

> I agree we need to think about how to fix ill systems. But I think we have 
> done enough work that we can readily avoid the pain you describe.

While I agree that for some, this might be true, I definitely don't 
believe that so is the case for my scenarios.

	Johnny