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On Wed, Jun 27, 2007 at 03:11:07AM +0200, Johnny Billquist wrote:
> Bill Stouder-Studenmund skrev:
> >Not really.
> >
> >I agree that things can really go down the drain. However if your system=
=20
> >is that bad off, why are you trying to use it to fix it?
>=20
> I don't think I need to answer that question, do I? Isn't it obvious=20
> that it's because that's all I have.

When I got started with NetBSD, I followed standard practice of the time.=
=20
One aspect of that was to create /altroot as a separate file system and to=
=20
keep it a bootable partition.

I thought this practice arose because of the kind of systems you describe,=
=20
where netbooting or CDs aren't readily available.

[snip]

> Actually, /rescue is of rather limited help most of the time. The only=20
> time when it helps is if a shared library is broken, or if you do an=20
> install of a new userland and leave /rescue alone, and the tool becomes=
=20
> broken. /rescue came around about the time when we moved /bin and /sbin=
=20
> to use shared libraries, as a solution to when those shared libraries=20
> fail. It's definitely not a solution for a lot of the problems you can=20
> stumble upon.

True, but I thought that was the kind of thing /altroot was good for.=20
Since you never updated /altroot until you thought the system was good,=20
you should still have a second system to fall back on.

> >Going further, if the system is so messed up that /rescue doesn't work,=
=20
> >use install media. Not to reinstall, but to boot a system that can work =
on=20
> >the ill system.
>=20
> That is assuming that you have an install media. As I've said in the=20
> past, I play with VAXen mostly, and install media isn't really=20
> "appropriate" for a VAX-8650.
> And the install program, even when you have such a media, isn't always=20
> working that good (for the VAX, once again).
>=20
> So for me, being able to repair the system by other means than running=20
> install, or using /rescue is definitely still happening from time to=20
> time. And I hate thinking I'm the only one. How about embedded systems=20
> with no external devices for instance? Sure there will be ways to=20
> reinstall from scratch there too, somehow, but it might not always be=20
> the path you really want to go in some cases.

As above, I thought the scenario you describe (which applies to other=20
systems too!) is exactly why we had /altroot. ??

As for embedded systems, I'm really not sure why someone would be using an
embedded system with something other than the functinality Wasabi markets
as Flashware(tm). It's our (NetBSD's) install kernels. You have all the
needed tools in an embedded root file system, and have symlinks to
perstent memory (CF card) to store config data.

The upshot for this conversation is that you always have a consistent set=
=20
of tools. As you update your product, upload new firmware & reboot into=20
it. Keep the last-good one around, and you're set.

Take care,

Bill

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