Subject: RE: VAX 4000/100 + cd + syquest ...etc
To: port-vax <port-vax@netbsd.org>
From: Schilling, Richard <RSchilling@affiliatedhealth.org>
List: port-vax
Date: 02/27/2001 11:18:04
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see below. . .
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Kukat [mailto:michael@unixiron.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 5:29 AM
> To: BrownM03
> Cc: port-vax
> Subject: Re: VAX 4000/100 + cd + syquest ...etc
>
>
> Hi !
>
> On Tue, 27 Feb 2001, BrownM03 wrote:
> > 1. Michael
> > > BTW: If you are new to VAXen... don't confuse SCSI and
> DSSI on you 100, or
> > you
> > > could trash this fantastic machine... It's a quite nice beast in
> > performance!
> > OK, what is the difference between DSSI & SCSI connectors?
>
> Ehm, internally none, they just look the same. That's the
> reason for my
> warnung :) In my 105A, the DSSI cables go to some little
DSSI was Digital's answer to SCSI. It's meant to be SCSI like,
thus the similarities. But take your time and make sure you don't
get the two mixed up! Never seen it happen, but you might fry
something, as others have suggested.
> a) It's A VAX!
Damn right, baby! I "grew up" on a VAX as a CS undergrad in
college, and a right of passage was to cause a
memory fault (which usually happend by filling up the disk with
virtual memory), or slowing the machine down for so long . . .which
only happened once every three years or. But it NEVER halted on us,
unless a drive went out.
> b) It's no Intel :)
> c) It's the godfather of CISC-architecture
> Ok, seen in numbers, this machine has the performance of
> about a P75, compared
Ahem. it has the performance of a 64 bit machine, which is what
VAX 4000/100 is. As far as comparing it to the P75, I dunno. . .
but the VAX 4000/100 was manufactured in 1992. So imagine having
a 64 bit machine in 92 - they ran governments, banks, etc . . .
which is a testament to the machine's prowess.
And this is why I've had a hard time with the common
PC as a developer - you get spoiled working on a VAX all day.
> to an Intel. Maybe this is even true in single user
> operation. But plug in
> 500 terminals to a P75 and a VAX of the same memory/disk
> configuration.
> The P75 will get extremely slow, but the VAX shows it's real
> capabilities, they
VAX is one of the first machines to earn the official designation
of being highly available.
> are mainframe-like in I/O and multiuser operation. The 105A i
> have (just a bit
> faster than your 100) was capable to service over 1000
> people, and was in that
> use up to 1999 or so. Show me an intel-machine beating this :)
>
> So: Don't expect to run quake on this machine, it simply
> isn't build for such
> purposes.
Actually, you could. The VAX CPU comes with special instructions for
running
math functions, and if the software is written right, It would probably
do pretty well with Quake. You could for sure run a bank on the machine
however. Many VAXes have been used as high end business machines, so
you won't necessarily find too many games for the architecture, but I'd love
to make one!
When I get my rendering routines done I'll let you know. . . a cluster of
VAXes
running simulation - you have no idea how cool that is.
> My 105A here runs sendmail, imapd, fetchmail,
> squid, apache with php
> and ssl, mysql client, and lots of other nice things not
> needing pure CPU
> performance. And it works _VERY_ nice for this job.
>
You most likely won't find a finer machine for the job.
> > That would be great thanks Michael, my only net-connected
> machine (at the
> > moment)
> > is a W2K box, and all attempts to connect to
> > ftp://ftp.unixiron.homeip.net/NetBSD-vax-1.5
> > fail on the LIST command. (I've tried IE,command line & CuteFTP)
>
> Argh, ok, this is a passive/active problem. You'll get a mail
> with the kernel
> i use here. (Ragge, is your last work for the 105 somewhere publically
> reachable?). Don't wonder of netstat/ps/iostat problems, this
> kernel doesn't
> match the 1.5 userland... You could rebuild the whole
> userland or look out for
> a complete -current snapshot in binary.
>
> > 5. Every(any)one :)
> > ANY information about 4000-100 vaxen, DSSI, Q-BUS, etc...
> would be handy.
See previous post - I'd be happy to scan the manual and put it online,
assuming
of course Compaq dosen't have a problem.
> > Including info on the external ports; ie. what they are and
> how I can use
> > them.
>
>
> > ps. do you guys prefer short messages? :))
> > (yes I'm new to mailing lists as well:)
>
Richard Schilling,
who's happy to see people get exposed to VAXes.
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>see below. . .</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>> -----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> From: Michael Kukat [<A HREF="mailto:michael@unixiron.org">mailto:michael@unixiron.org</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 5:29 AM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> To: BrownM03</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Cc: port-vax</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Subject: Re: VAX 4000/100 + cd + syquest ...etc</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Hi !</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> On Tue, 27 Feb 2001, BrownM03 wrote:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > 1. Michael</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > > BTW: If you are new to VAXen... don't confuse SCSI and </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> DSSI on you 100, or</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > you</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > > could trash this fantastic machine... It's a quite nice beast in</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > performance!</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > OK, what is the difference between DSSI & SCSI connectors?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Ehm, internally none, they just look the same. That's the </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> reason for my</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> warnung :) In my 105A, the DSSI cables go to some little </FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>DSSI was Digital's answer to SCSI. It's meant to be SCSI like,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>thus the similarities. But take your time and make sure you don't</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>get the two mixed up! Never seen it happen, but you might fry </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>something, as others have suggested.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>> a) It's A VAX!</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>Damn right, baby! I "grew up" on a VAX as a CS undergrad in </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>college, and a right of passage was to cause a </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>memory fault (which usually happend by filling up the disk with</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>virtual memory), or slowing the machine down for so long . . .which</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>only happened once every three years or. But it NEVER halted on us, </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>unless a drive went out.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>> b) It's no Intel :)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> c) It's the godfather of CISC-architecture</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Ok, seen in numbers, this machine has the performance of </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> about a P75, compared</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>Ahem. it has the performance of a 64 bit machine, which is what </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>VAX 4000/100 is. As far as comparing it to the P75, I dunno. . . </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>but the VAX 4000/100 was manufactured in 1992. So imagine having </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>a 64 bit machine in 92 - they ran governments, banks, etc . . . </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>which is a testament to the machine's prowess.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>And this is why I've had a hard time with the common</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>PC as a developer - you get spoiled working on a VAX all day.</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>> to an Intel. Maybe this is even true in single user </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> operation. But plug in</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> 500 terminals to a P75 and a VAX of the same memory/disk </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> configuration.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> The P75 will get extremely slow, but the VAX shows it's real </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> capabilities, they</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>VAX is one of the first machines to earn the official designation</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>of being highly available. </FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>> are mainframe-like in I/O and multiuser operation. The 105A i </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> have (just a bit</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> faster than your 100) was capable to service over 1000 </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> people, and was in that</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> use up to 1999 or so. Show me an intel-machine beating this :)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> So: Don't expect to run quake on this machine, it simply </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> isn't build for such</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> purposes. </FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>Actually, you could. The VAX CPU comes with special instructions for running</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>math functions, and if the software is written right, It would probably </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>do pretty well with Quake. You could for sure run a bank on the machine</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>however. Many VAXes have been used as high end business machines, so</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>you won't necessarily find too many games for the architecture, but I'd love</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>to make one!</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>When I get my rendering routines done I'll let you know. . . a cluster of VAXes </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>running simulation - you have no idea how cool that is.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>> My 105A here runs sendmail, imapd, fetchmail, </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> squid, apache with php</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> and ssl, mysql client, and lots of other nice things not </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> needing pure CPU</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> performance. And it works _VERY_ nice for this job.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>You most likely won't find a finer machine for the job.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>> > That would be great thanks Michael, my only net-connected </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> machine (at the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > moment)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > is a W2K box, and all attempts to connect to</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > </FONT>">ftp://ftp.unixiron.homeip.net/NetBSD-vax-1.5</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > fail on the LIST command. (I've tried IE,command line & CuteFTP)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Argh, ok, this is a passive/active problem. You'll get a mail </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> with the kernel</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> i use here. (Ragge, is your last work for the 105 somewhere publically</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> reachable?). Don't wonder of netstat/ps/iostat problems, this </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> kernel doesn't</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> match the 1.5 userland... You could rebuild the whole </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> userland or look out for</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> a complete -current snapshot in binary.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>> > 5. Every(any)one :)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > ANY information about 4000-100 vaxen, DSSI, Q-BUS, etc... </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> would be handy.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>See previous post - I'd be happy to scan the manual and put it online, assuming</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>of course Compaq dosen't have a problem.</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>> > Including info on the external ports; ie. what they are and </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> how I can use</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > them.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > ps. do you guys prefer short messages? :))</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > (yes I'm new to mailing lists as well:)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>Richard Schilling,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>who's happy to see people get exposed to VAXes.</FONT>
</P>
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