Subject: RE: Vax 4000-200 info
To: Brian Chase <bdc@anim.dreamworks.com>
From: Lindgren, Jon <jlindgren@SLK.com>
List: port-vax
Date: 11/23/1998 08:00:59
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
------_=_NextPart_001_01BE16E1.5C8531E0
Content-Type: text/plain
The VAX CPUs all conformed to very strict support of the VAX
instruction
set. There are definitely some deviations, but they're minor
compared
to other processor families like the 680x0, 80x86, MIPS, and Sparc.
The older VAXen like the 11/780 include full support the PDP-11
instruction set as well as the VAX instructions. Only the first few
models went to that extreme. Other models only support the VAX
instruction set. Then the MicroVAX I and II skipped a handful of of
the
more extravagent instructions, but provided means to easily trap
those
instructions for software emulation. The VAXes after those
reincorporated the instructions in hardware. There's some
difference in
the floating point types supported between the various systems, but
nothing earth shattering. And then some of the later models, like
the
VAX 10000 supported a vector processing superset of instructions.
> What is probably more work is getting the built in SCSI,
network,
> tape, etc to work.
I distinctly recall someone working on VAX 4000 support a few months
ago. They met with some success on getting the ethernet driver
working
for the bootloader, but I don't think they'd gotten to the point of
modifying the kernel to run on the system. I'm pretty sure his
system
was a VAX 4000/200. Definitely check on the NetBSD/vax mailing
list.
It's not currently supported, but there may be others working on
support
for the system.
Well, I tried to netboot it this weekend. As far as I can tell, the NetBSD
boot code was transferred to the box, but nothing [useful] took place after
that; it just died with a cryptic error and returned to the boot prom. I
don't know what kind of setup the bootloader performs, but I figured I might
get it to at least show a few lines of errors then die, but no go.
Does anyone have any info or ideas for getting a 4000-200 running with
NetBSD? I've searched through the mail archives, but only found a port for
the 4000-60. I'll give the archives another check. I'd be thankful for
anyone who might be interrested in either pointing me in the right direction
or throwing some ideas my way.
-Jon Lindgren
Spear, Leeds & Kellogg
(201) 332-3577, x4391
jlindgren@slk.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brian Chase [SMTP:bdc@anim.dreamworks.com]
> Sent: Thursday, November 19, 1998 11:52 PM
> To: David Brownlee
> Cc: Lindgren, Jon
> Subject: RE: Vax 4000-200 info
>
> On Thu, 19 Nov 1998, David Brownlee wrote:
> > On Mon, 16 Nov 1998, Lindgren, Jon wrote:
>
> > > > Not as far as I know :/ Have you asked on the list as to NetBSD
> > > > support?
>
> > > Yeah. It's a rather rare CPU, so it's not yet supported. Being new
> to
> > > VAXen, I don't know what the CPU differences are yet. Are they
> > > subsets/supersets of another, being binary compatible to a great
> degree?
> > > Completely different? I mean, if it's a 68020 verses a 68030 type of
> > > problem, then this type of support should be easy. Would you have any
> > > references that might point to some VAX cpu tech notes?
>
> > As far as I know the CPU support is probably not the main issue.
> > (except in pathalogical cases such as the MicroVAX-I CPU which
> > has so many things left out :) Generally different CPUs need
> > different sets of instructions emulated, and require different
> > interrupt and other startup (I'm handwaving at this point, not
> > having worked on the vax kernel, but I'm cc-ing my friend Brian
> > who may be able to check in his VAX architecture handbook :)
>
> The VAX CPUs all conformed to very strict support of the VAX instruction
> set. There are definitely some deviations, but they're minor compared
> to other processor families like the 680x0, 80x86, MIPS, and Sparc.
>
> The older VAXen like the 11/780 include full support the PDP-11
> instruction set as well as the VAX instructions. Only the first few
> models went to that extreme. Other models only support the VAX
> instruction set. Then the MicroVAX I and II skipped a handful of of the
> more extravagent instructions, but provided means to easily trap those
> instructions for software emulation. The VAXes after those
> reincorporated the instructions in hardware. There's some difference in
> the floating point types supported between the various systems, but
> nothing earth shattering. And then some of the later models, like the
> VAX 10000 supported a vector processing superset of instructions.
>
> > What is probably more work is getting the built in SCSI, network,
> > tape, etc to work.
>
> I distinctly recall someone working on VAX 4000 support a few months
> ago. They met with some success on getting the ethernet driver working
> for the bootloader, but I don't think they'd gotten to the point of
> modifying the kernel to run on the system. I'm pretty sure his system
> was a VAX 4000/200. Definitely check on the NetBSD/vax mailing list.
> It's not currently supported, but there may be others working on support
> for the system.
>
> -brian.
> --
> Brian Chase / bdc@anim.dreamworks.com / DreamWorks SKG
> THE RAIN WASHES MEMORIES FROM THE GLANDS OF COWS. -- MegaHAL.
> http://ciips.ee.uwa.edu.au/~hutch/hal/HAL/
------_=_NextPart_001_01BE16E1.5C8531E0
Content-Type: text/html
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
5.5.2232.0">
<TITLE>RE: Vax 4000-200 info</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<UL>
<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">The VAX CPUs all =
conformed to very strict support of the VAX instruction</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">set. There =
are definitely some deviations, but they're minor compared</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">to other processor =
families like the 680x0, 80x86, MIPS, and Sparc. </FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">The older VAXen like =
the 11/780 include full support the PDP-11</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">instruction set as =
well as the VAX instructions. Only the first few</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">models went to that =
extreme. Other models only support the VAX</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">instruction =
set. Then the MicroVAX I and II skipped a handful of of =
the</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">more extravagent =
instructions, but provided means to easily trap those</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">instructions for =
software emulation. The VAXes after those</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">reincorporated the =
instructions in hardware. There's some difference in</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">the floating point =
types supported between the various systems, but</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">nothing earth =
shattering. And then some of the later models, like the</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">VAX 10000 supported =
a vector processing superset of instructions.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">> =
What is probably more work is getting =
the built in SCSI, network,</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">> =
tape, etc to work.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">I distinctly recall =
someone working on VAX 4000 support a few months</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">ago. They met =
with some success on getting the ethernet driver working</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">for the bootloader, =
but I don't think they'd gotten to the point of</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">modifying the =
kernel to run on the system. I'm pretty sure his system</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">was a VAX =
4000/200. Definitely check on the NetBSD/vax mailing list.</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">It's not currently =
supported, but there may be others working on support</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">for the =
system.</FONT>
</P>
</UL>
<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Well, I tried to =
netboot it this weekend. As far as I can tell, the NetBSD boot =
code was transferred to the box, but nothing [useful] took place after =
that; it just died with a cryptic error and returned to the boot =
prom. I don't know what kind of setup the bootloader performs, =
but I figured I might get it to at least show a few lines of errors =
then die, but no go.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Does anyone have any =
info or ideas for getting a 4000-200 running with NetBSD? I've =
searched through the mail archives, but only found a port for the =
4000-60. I'll give the archives another check. I'd be =
thankful for anyone who might be interrested in either pointing me in =
the right direction or throwing some ideas my way.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">-Jon Lindgren</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial"> Spear, Leeds =
& Kellogg</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial"> (201) =
332-3577, x4391</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial"> jlindgren@slk.com</FONT>
</P>
<UL>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">From: </FONT></B> <FONT =
SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">Brian Chase =
[SMTP:bdc@anim.dreamworks.com]</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">Sent: </FONT></B> <FONT =
SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">Thursday, November 19, 1998 11:52 PM</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D1 =
FACE=3D"Arial">To: </FONT></B> <FONT SIZE=3D1 =
FACE=3D"Arial">David Brownlee</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D1 =
FACE=3D"Arial">Cc: </FONT></B> <FONT SIZE=3D1 =
FACE=3D"Arial">Lindgren, Jon</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D1 =
FACE=3D"Arial">Subject: </FONT>=
</B> <FONT SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">RE: Vax 4000-200 info</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">On Thu, 19 Nov 1998, =
David Brownlee wrote:</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">> On Mon, 16 Nov =
1998, Lindgren, Jon wrote:</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">> > > Not =
as far as I know :/ Have you asked on the list as to NetBSD</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">> > > =
support?</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">> > =
Yeah. It's a rather rare CPU, so it's not yet supported. =
Being new to</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">> > VAXen, I =
don't know what the CPU differences are yet. Are they</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">> > =
subsets/supersets of another, being binary compatible to a great =
degree?</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">> > =
Completely different? I mean, if it's a 68020 verses a 68030 type =
of</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">> > problem, =
then this type of support should be easy. Would you have =
any</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">> > =
references that might point to some VAX cpu tech notes?</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">> =
As far as I know the CPU support is =
probably not the main issue.</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">> =
(except in pathalogical cases such as =
the MicroVAX-I CPU which</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">> =
has so many things left out :) Generally =
different CPUs need</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">> =
different sets of instructions emulated, =
and require different</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">> =
interrupt and other startup (I'm =
handwaving at this point, not</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">> =
having worked on the vax kernel, but I'm =
cc-ing my friend Brian</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">> =
who may be able to check in his VAX =
architecture handbook :)</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">The VAX CPUs all =
conformed to very strict support of the VAX instruction</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">set. There =
are definitely some deviations, but they're minor compared</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">to other processor =
families like the 680x0, 80x86, MIPS, and Sparc. </FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">The older VAXen like =
the 11/780 include full support the PDP-11</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">instruction set as =
well as the VAX instructions. Only the first few</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">models went to that =
extreme. Other models only support the VAX</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">instruction =
set. Then the MicroVAX I and II skipped a handful of of =
the</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">more extravagent =
instructions, but provided means to easily trap those</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">instructions for =
software emulation. The VAXes after those</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">reincorporated the =
instructions in hardware. There's some difference in</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">the floating point =
types supported between the various systems, but</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">nothing earth =
shattering. And then some of the later models, like the</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">VAX 10000 supported =
a vector processing superset of instructions.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">> =
What is probably more work is getting =
the built in SCSI, network,</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">> =
tape, etc to work.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">I distinctly recall =
someone working on VAX 4000 support a few months</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">ago. They met =
with some success on getting the ethernet driver working</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">for the bootloader, =
but I don't think they'd gotten to the point of</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">modifying the =
kernel to run on the system. I'm pretty sure his system</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">was a VAX =
4000/200. Definitely check on the NetBSD/vax mailing list.</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">It's not currently =
supported, but there may be others working on support</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">for the =
system.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">-brian.</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">--</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Brian Chase / =
bdc@anim.dreamworks.com / DreamWorks SKG</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">THE RAIN WASHES =
MEMORIES FROM THE GLANDS OF COWS. -- MegaHAL.</FONT>
<BR><U><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial"><A =
HREF=3D"http://ciips.ee.uwa.edu.au/~hutch/hal/HAL/" =
TARGET=3D"_blank">http://ciips.ee.uwa.edu.au/~hutch/hal/HAL/</A></FONT><=
/U>
</P>
</UL>
</BODY>
</HTML>
------_=_NextPart_001_01BE16E1.5C8531E0--