> > We do have VAXen running NetBSD and serving as web servers, etc. on the
> > 'net. We do have NetBSD/vax machines running servers for all sorts of
> > other uses. I'm referring to "we" as "the NetBSD community".
> 
>    OK, so you do have VAXen in production, but how about competing with
> Pentiums and SPARCs and giving shell access to thousands of users? It's

I've given away a few VAX shells to friends.  Mine has taken all kinds
of DoS attacks, some hack attempts, and a half hearted kick (accidental)
without giving me too much trouble.  Hell, on a 14.4k telnet its all the
same if its a PPro, a K6, or a VS3100.

> still true that most people on port-vax consider VAXen a retrocomputing
> diversion. I have seen lots of statements on port-vax like the following:

Most, yes.

>    - "Can I make my VAXstation boot from its SCSI disk instead of the net,
> or am I nuts even thinking about this?"

You don't deserve the right to (mis)quote me - piss off.  I asked that
because I plainly didn't have the time or patience to sit and go through
tons of docs and list archives to find out - call me a lazy-ass.

>    - "Is there anyone at all on this list who doesn't always netboot to get
> the kernel running?"

This isn't a failure of NetBSD, its called a question.  NetBSD comes
with a nice easy way to test out, MOP/NFS booting.  I cirtainly wished
Digital would have thought of something better with VMS, else I'd have
one of my VS3100's running it right now.  Short of a miracle or some
alternative media, I'm screwed.

>    - "I wonder how long will it take to, say, compile Lynx on NetBSD/vax?
> Two weeks?"

8 hours on a netbooted 3100m30...  took 10 on a 386DX/40 with its own
IDE drive, but half the ram.

>    Have you EVER seen anyone make such statements about a Pentium or a
> SPARC? Until your community starts treating VAXen equally seriously with
> Pentiums and SPARCs, and makes NetBSD fit for this, I will continue to say
> that NetBSD is a hobbyist toy absolutely unfit for serious use. As for your

I know of several ISPs based on NetBSD (though not VAX).  IMHO its not
the best for that use, but it does work.

> servers running NetBSD/vax, I bet that they have been set up very carefully
> so that none of the programs that makes NetBSD/vax crash ever gets
> executed, and no one except the administrator can log into them, since
> anyone else logging into the box will make it crash immediately. Now
> imagine about ten boxes on which thousands of users can run and compile
> arbitrary programs. A couple hundred of these users are hackers trying to
> crack root on the system just for the art's sake. Is NetBSD/vax fit for
> such boxes? I _STRONGLY_ doubt that, even though I have heard that some of
> the problems have been fixed in the 1.3 release.

Lusers that want to crash your box will NOT give a DAMN what you're
running.  You can hack/crash any OS on any platform if you know your
shit.  NetBSD/VAX is security by obscurity in reality.

>    I like Berkeley UNIX(R) better than NetBSD. Period. This is just my
> personal opinion and I'm not trying to force it upon anyone else. Please
> don't follow this thread further, since I have no time for this pointless
> debate. Everyone likes what he or she likes. On the other hand, unlike

Eat it.

> f*ckers who make commercial software, I publicize all my work, and anyone
> is welcome to reuse my work in any way he/she pleases, including porting it
> to NetBSD. This may be difficult because of the way you have f*cked up the
> config mechanism, but this is your problem: no one was forcing you to
> switch to your so-called "new" config.

My comment about this whole thing (and many things before this):

"MICHAEL IS BEING A DILDO!"

This whole thing has gone about 12 steps too far.  Cut the shit, you're
being a DICK.  In my experience those who talk the most (especially
stroking their ego in the way you do) spend most of their time talking
out their ass, and you've got a bad case of e-mail diarrhea.

>    Sincerely,
>    Michael Sokolov
>    Phone: 440-449-0299
>    ARPA Internet SMTP mail: sokolov@alpha.ces.cwru.edu
     ^^^^  
are you trying to do the "I AM SO MAD LEET CUZ I KNOW HOW TO SPELL AYE
ARE PEE AYE"...  ARPA is long since gone, and BTW, it was a product of
the government you hate oh-so-much.

You need a MASS BEATING WITH A CLUEBAT.  *THWACK* *BLAP* *THUD*

Jacob Suter