In message <Pine.GSO.3.96.1000208190343.17834S-100000@delta.ds2.pg.gda.pl>"Maci
ej W. Rozycki" writes:

> Ah, I wouldn't call this fact "the machine doesn't MOP-boot properly"; 

Why not? If I recall correctly, the machines in question wouldn't
MOP-boot later versions of Ultrix, either. Perhaps there's some
language barrier here, but a bug is a bug.

> The limitation was then loosened over time when both the code and the
>equipment got improved.

Nope. I'm talking about bugs introduced in specific later versions,
and then (IIRC) fixed in a even more recent version.  I'd have to
check the stack of 3100s I got donated to be sure; but theyre' in
storage, and I dont have a reliable MOP server in any case.


> Hmm, I am afraid I know ELF only and I don't actually think I like the
>idea of digging into (E)COFF -- you have to convert an image into a raw
>binary format on the fly and that's easy for ELF regardless of the
>platform the ELF image is for.  I don't even have COFF specs.  Doesn't the
>kernel compile into ELF (I don't know for sure, although I believe so; I'm
>actually a Linux developer)?

Yes, NetBSD kernels compile to ELF. They also compile to ECOFF, since
that's all the bootPROMs can TFTP-boot.  ECOFF was developed by Third
Eye and used by MipsCo for their compiler toolchain.  Ultrix, and IRIX
up until IRIX5, used ECOFF.

Commiserations on being a Linux developer.  There's still hope
you'll see the light someday.


> On the other hand -- you may convert (E)COFF images into ELF using
>objcopy -- it might be the easier way. 

Everyone suggests that the first time they hear about the ECOFF-only
PROMs. Unfortunately, ECOFF and ELF are sufficiently different that
objcopy format conversions aren't bootable.  The required extensions
to make them bootable are (last I asked) too special-purpose to really
fit well into binutils. That's why we have elf2ecoff in the NetBSD
tree: it doesnt handle more general conversions, but it does grok the
constraints of ELF->ECOFF and produce bootable kernels.


> It sounds reasonably.  I'm not sure whether the firmware of network cards
>supports sending and receiving frames -- otherwise you'll have to include
>a bunch of drivers for various cards (think FDDI or WAN).

It's supposed to, for machines that have slots for option cards to
do FDDI or WAN.  Dave Boggs loaned me a couple of his WRL T-3 cards, but
I dont know if they support netboot at all.