Dear all,

>>>>> "Kevin" == Kevin Schoedel <kevin@archelon.com> writes:

Uhmmm - dunno who you're citing but I'll bite anyway ;)

    >> I can't speak to Linux on the pmax, but, in general, Linux is
    >> much closer to SysV than NetBSD is (duh!). For someone who

Talk about surprise here.. IMHO Linux in general unites the best of
both universes. lpd and SYSV-init for example.

    >> isn't used to switching away from one flavor of Unix to
    >> another, and whose experience is SysV-based, using a BSD is
    >> likely to be *extremely* frustrating. That person is better
    >> served by Linux.

Not really. Once you gained some Unix experience the differences don't
matter _that_ much (once more IMHO no flamewar intended). I plain
simply like both, though Linux is my longest lasting contact to the
world of Unixen .

    Kevin> My experience was exactly the opposite. Nearly all of my
    Kevin> UNIX experience has been using System V at work (mostly,
    Kevin> Solaris, Unixware, and before that Unixware's ancestors,
    Kevin> which were basically pure SysV), and for a long time I ran
    Kevin> a 386 with ISC System V at home. (I am not holding System V
    Kevin> up as an ideal, by any means; just pointing out that I
    Kevin> match the description of a person whose experience is
    Kevin> SysV-based.)

It's hard to judge nowadays whether a system is BDS or SYSVish, isn't
it ;) ?

    Kevin> Now my main home box runs NetBSD/pmax. I am much, *much*

Same here - welcome to the club ;)

    Kevin> happier with it than with my attempt, a year or so ago, to
    Kevin> run Linux on a machine five times as fast.

I couldn't say that as easily. My PC at work has (for example) sound
support, which is something I'm direly missing here. And my router
runs Linux because it can handle NAT on my link using dynamic IP
adresses better then NetBSD (this may have changed over time but PC's
are (once more again) IMHO better off running Linux.

    Kevin> Yes, there are major differences between SysV and NetBSD in
    Kevin> administration, and a few in userland, but I found NetBSD

Yup. These differences took me some time to get used to. Now I can
live with both flavours.

    Kevin> easy to pick up, since it's well organized and, for the
    Kevin> most part, reasonably well documented.

One of the main reasons I like the *BSDs better ist the approcah of a
"one size fits all" distribution. All of the are small, swift and
deadly ;) If you want more, roll your own but you don't have to fight
with the (small but ugly) differenced between eg. SuSE and RedHat
Distros.

    Kevin> It was Linux that I gave up in frustration, actually. (This
    Kevin> was *before* I ever touched NetBSD (or any contemporary
    Kevin> BSD), by the way. I *wanted* to like Linux, and I used it

Well, it's just the same with Unix and women, isn't it ;= ?

    Kevin> long enough that I contributed to the frame buffer device
    Kevin> driver for my machine.)  I didn't find Linux to be

Way to go. Don't nag, contribute!

    Kevin> particularly SysV-like. Yes, init is (or was in the variant
    Kevin> I ran) like System V, but that's about it. There were many,
    Kevin> many differences from what I was used to, with no apparent
    Kevin> underlying structure, and not much help from the
    Kevin> documentation. System V has man pages, and I use them
    Kevin> often; Linux all too often had those FSF-rant placeholders,
    Kevin> which may be what finally pushed me to the final shutdown.

<SIGH> I know what you mean.. But even NetBSD adopted this nasty
habit. ever done a "man fdisk"?

    Kevin> Obviously people's experiences vary, but to me NetBSD
    Kevin> "feels" like a "real UNIX" system, and consequently closer
    Kevin> to SysV than is Linux, which, to me, has the feel of a
    Kevin> random collection of loosely UNIX- inspired freeware. Linux
    Kevin> constantly reminded me of that remark (see fortune(6)) by
    Kevin> Henry Spencer (which wasn't about Linux, was it?).

Uhmmm - Linux is just a kernel. Everything else comes from different
(even speaking in terms of quality) sources. Ever tried a "make world"
under Linux? No SUP et. al. which are goodies I like very, very much.

    Kevin> IMHO the people who would be best served by Linux on the
    Kevin> pmax, or rather, those who would *prefer* Linux on the
    Kevin> pmax, are not those whose experience is SysV-based, but
    Kevin> those whose experience is purely Linux-based. That may well
    Kevin> be a larger market, though.

I disagree - what makes the world of free Unixen this fascinating is
the option of choice. I'd like to see both flavours grow and bloom
(sp.?) and provide all users to choose. Linux is more popular nowadays
(at least in the PeeCee world) but times may change...

Just my 2¢,

   Bern "I'll never write such long articles again, promised" hard

-- 
      Unix is like a wigwam: No fences, no gates, apache inside.