Subject: Re: Asking for NVIDIA drivers
To: bruno <nc41530a@vizzavi.pt>
From: bruno <nc41530a@vizzavi.pt>
List: netbsd-advocacy
Date: 07/31/2005 23:00:43
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bruno wrote:
> Steve wrote:
>
>> Begging pardon, but I'm currently under the impression that the NetBSD
>> developers would mind quite a bit working under an NDA. Unless you've
>> consulted them yourself about this, I don't think it's quite a good
>> idea to put words like that in their mouths.
>>
>>
> My mistake, and an important one: I meant "would probably be willing"
> instead of "would be willing". I'm trying to get to that forum to
> correct my post, but the forum seems to be down.
>
> Sorry about putting words into other people's mouth: was never my
> intention. Being mistaken is not as bad as putting words for others.
>
>
> Bruno
I rewrote the paragraph:
*****************
PS: Of course could you can try to develop such a driver on your own,
I'm just saying some NetBSD developers would probably be willing to do
it if they could and probably wouldn't mind a NDA just to have 3D
accelerated games (the closed-source games that run on FreeBSD through
Linux emulation would probably run in NetBSD as well). And NVIDIA would
spend less human resources on such project as they're needed to support
current drivers.
*****************
My point was to propose NVIDIA the portability concept applied to
closed-source drivers. NVIDIA would gain from supporting a more
stabilized code and the Linux/BSD/Solaris communities would gain from
easier integration with non-IA32 platforms and with X features like
dual-head and others.
Like him and others at freebsdforums.org said:
http://www.freebsdforums.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=173994#post173994
I *ALSO* agree with you about forcing NVIDIA to document their hardware,
as Christos Zoulas said:
http://os.newsforge.com/os/05/06/09/2132233.shtml?tid=152&tid=8&tid=2
" The situation is getting worse because all open source products (with
the exception of OpenBSD) tolerate the status quo of supporting products
that provide no documentation, using vendor-provided -- sometimes
binary-only -- drivers. I don't think that OpenBSD's abrasive campaign
is the way to go, although it appears to be producing results. "
Theo is not all powerful: on the Adaptec case he said this:
http://www.sigmasoft.com/~openbsd/archive/openbsd-misc/200503/msg01362.html
"OpenBSD 3.7 ships without Adaptec RAID support."
And ended up doing this:
http://www.openbsd.org/i386.html#hardware
" Note: In the past year Adaptec has lied to us repeatedly about
forthcoming documentation so that RAID support for these (rather buggy)
raid controllers could be stabilized, improved, and managed. As a
result, we do not recomend the Adaptec cards for use."
So IMHO the free OS communities must gain weight as consumers before
demanding, or else they won't mind if you switch to a competitor because
it ain't worth the trouble of reviewing and rewriting documentation for
every piece of hardware they sell, sold, and will sell. Open source
politics matters on the server market where it's big, and the OS is more
important than the hardware brand. This is still not the case in the
desktop, so we can't be as demanding and expect them to hear. Especially
graphic cards manufacturers which belong almost entirely on the desktop
market. I never even expected to see Solaris and FreeBSD NVIDIA drivers !
Bruno
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<font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><small><font color="#000000">bruno
wrote:</font></small></font>
<blockquote cite="mid42ED3DC4.6090504@vizzavi.pt" type="cite"><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><small><font color="#000000">Steve
wrote:
<br>
<br>
</font></small></font>
<blockquote type="cite"><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><small><font
color="#000000">Begging pardon, but I'm currently under the impression
that the NetBSD
<br>
developers would mind quite a bit working under an NDA. Unless you've
<br>
consulted them yourself about this, I don't think it's quite a good
<br>
idea to put words like that in their mouths.
<br>
<br>
<br>
</font></small></font></blockquote>
<font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><small><font color="#000000">My
mistake, and an important one: I meant "would probably be willing"
instead of "would be willing". I'm trying to get to that forum to
correct my post, but the forum seems to be down.
<br>
<br>
Sorry about putting words into other people's mouth: was never my
intention. Being mistaken is not as bad as putting words for others.
<br>
<br>
<br>
Bruno
<br>
</font>
</small></font></blockquote>
<font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><small><font color="#000000">I
rewrote the paragraph:<br>
*****************<br>
PS: Of course could you can try to develop such a driver on your own,
I'm just saying some NetBSD developers would probably be willing to do
it if they could and probably wouldn't mind a NDA just to have 3D
accelerated games (the closed-source games that run on FreeBSD through
Linux emulation would probably run in NetBSD as well). And NVIDIA would
spend less human resources on such project as they're needed to support
current drivers.<br>
*****************<br>
<br>
My point was to propose NVIDIA the portability concept applied to
closed-source drivers. NVIDIA would gain from supporting a more
stabilized code and the Linux/BSD/Solaris communities would gain from
easier integration with non-IA32 platforms and with X features like
dual-head and others. <br>
<br>
Like him and others at freebsdforums.org said:<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.freebsdforums.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=173994#post173994">http://www.freebsdforums.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=173994#post173994</a><br>
<br>
I *ALSO* agree with you about forcing NVIDIA to document their
hardware, as Christos Zoulas said:<br>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://os.newsforge.com/os/05/06/09/2132233.shtml?tid=152&tid=8&tid=2">http://os.newsforge.com/os/05/06/09/2132233.shtml?tid=152&tid=8&tid=2</a><br>
<big>"</big></font><big><font color="#000000" size="-1"> The situation
is getting worse because all
open source products (with the exception of OpenBSD) tolerate the
status quo of supporting products that provide no documentation, using
vendor-provided -- sometimes binary-only -- drivers. I don't think that
OpenBSD's abrasive campaign is the way to go, although it appears to be
producing results. "</font></big><font color="#000000"><big><br>
</big><br>
Theo is not all powerful: on the Adaptec case he said this:<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.sigmasoft.com/~openbsd/archive/openbsd-misc/200503/msg01362.html">http://www.sigmasoft.com/~openbsd/archive/openbsd-misc/200503/msg01362.html</a><br>
</font></small></font>
<pre><big><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><small><font
color="#000000">"OpenBSD 3.7 ships without Adaptec RAID support."</font></small></font></big></pre>
<font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><small><font color="#000000">And
ended up doing this: <br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.openbsd.org/i386.html#hardware">http://www.openbsd.org/i386.html#hardware</a><br>
"</font><font color="#000000"> Note: In the past year Adaptec has lied
to us repeatedly about forthcoming documentation so that RAID support
for these (rather buggy) raid controllers could be stabilized,
improved, and managed. As a result, we do not recomend the Adaptec
cards for use."<br>
<br>
<br>
So IMHO the free OS communities must gain weight as consumers before
demanding, or else they won't mind if you switch to a competitor
because it ain't worth the trouble of reviewing and rewriting
documentation for every piece of hardware they sell, sold, and will
sell. Open source politics matters on the server market where it's big,
and the OS is more important than the hardware brand. This is still not
the case in the desktop, so we can't be as demanding and expect them to
hear. Especially graphic cards manufacturers which belong almost
entirely on the desktop market. I never even expected to see Solaris
and FreeBSD NVIDIA drivers !<br>
<br>
<br>
Bruno<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</font></small></font>
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