[silently redirected to netbsd-advocacy only]

> decent flare effects in OpenGL 

I have yet to see a decent flare effect.  You may have a valid point 
about the immaturity of Unix 3D tools---I'm not experienced enough 
to know.  but you certainly picked a terrible example!  Lens designers 
go to extreme lengths to eliminate flare (ex., riged hoods, 
quarter-wave optical coatings), and meanwhile DirectX developers go 
to absurd lengths to simulate the undesireable.

Next you will want a 3D toolkit that simulates 20/30 vision, because 
most soldiers-of-fortune need reading glasses.  I begin to suspect that 
we may be talking about a difference in philosophy rather than a 
difference in capability, but perhaps someone else like yourself who is 
familiar with the development kits Sony is selling can agree or disagree 
more authoritatively.

> I never understood 3d matrice math so if the code does it for me 
> I don't care.

In that case, the NetBSD console platform will let you write your 
game to the Quake engine.  Understanding is a three-edged sword.

> I say we all ignore PS2 totally and don't buy one.
> It'll hurt Sony more than porting NetBSD will 

I can see how it's tempting, but too many times already I've found 
myself falling into the temptation if ignoring and deriding something 
just because I'm not familiar with it, and I don't want to have to 
learn something new.  I took that attitude toward the Macintosh, 
toward Unix, toward vendor Unix, toward NetBSD, toward notPeeCee 
desktops like Sun's, and toward notC languages like Lisp, toward 
mutt instead of pine, toward DH ``perfect forward secrecy'' instead of 
RSA, toward emacs instead of vi, and I've been dead wrong every god 
damned time.

The only time I might have been right is when I wanted to stick with 
CERN httpd instead of Apache, and I eventually gave in to the pressure 
on that one.

I am definitely _not_ in favour of ignoring the PS2 with the 
justification that PeeCee's are better.  But I've already written 
about the PeeCee-is-dead stuff _ad nauseum_ so I won't repeat it.  See 
the archives if you're interested, and if you're not then just ignore 
me.

And, we are not here to ``hurt Sony!''  The point is to advance the 
NetBSD Project.  Besides, even if you are in this for the struggle 
rather than the progress, defeating the enemy is not the same as 
inflicting pain upon the enemy.

> Consoles are disposable computers.  I dont like
> that throw away principle!

Why not?

What avenue of technological progression do you propose to replace 
``the throw-away principle''?

What is your objection exactly?  That the PS2 is too inexpensive?  
That it is too simple?  That it can be thrown away and replaced?  
These seem like good things, to me.

You might try to attack the PS2 based on every way that it differs from 
a PeeCee:  for example, it doesn't run Microsoft Office and Realplayer.  
It isn't ``upgradeable'' (sic---it is).  It doesn't have a built-in 
modem.  It doesn't have hardware-compatible ``clones.''   But remember 
that computer designers must make trade-offs, and as I mentioned earlier 
it is easy to fall into a trap disparaging things just because they are 
new or different.  

I remember complaining about the Macintosh's supposed ``lack of 
upgradeability'' to my more experienced friend (who knew what a TI 
Explorer looked like), and he asked me, ``what are the things you might 
want to `upgrade' your PeeCee with?''  I listed about five different 
things, and he pointed out that in each case the sealed-box Macintosh 
either already had The Thing, or could accomodate it externally via 
SCSI or built-in Localtalk networking much more simply/reliably than 
the PeeCee.

Anyway, I am sure the details of the argument will be different in this 
round than in the ancient Mac-vs-PeeCee nonsense, but I suspect the 
general pattern and the final outcome will be the same.  The newer 
stuff designed by the smarter people is just plain better.  

Of course, a few people are still fighting that Mac-vs-PeeCee thing, so 
maybe I spoke too soon.  The problem is, I'm more of an ``I'm right, you're 
wrong'' sort of person than a ``Let's vote on the Truth'' person.