David Maxwell <david@fundy.ca> writes:

> My point is this - we don't want anyone to ever say "No way am I using
> NetBSD, those developers are jerks."

Well, Hell, we're already screwed by that metric.

> Part of avoiding that is being
> patient, understanding, helpful, and tolerant.

And by never advertising the fact that people are using our software,
effectively.  Great.  So, how many jobs have you gotten with a blank
resume?

> As long as it is approached
> in a sensible manner, I have no problem with identifying users of the
> code.

For your definition of `sensible', of course.

> I do think however that we get wayyyy more mileage
> (kilometerage too) out of example B below, than example A.
> 
> A) Companies using NetBSD in their development of products:
> 	
> 		AAA Corp.
> 		MMM Inc.
> 		ZZZ International
> 
> B) Feedback from companies using NetBSD in their development of products:
> 
> 	"Our development cycles have been greatly enhanced through the
> 	use of the quality NetBSD code base."
> 				 - B. Smith, VP Development, AAA Corp

Actually, I disagree.  Nobody reads tripe like this and believes it.
At the *very* most, it might cause someone C. Johnson from QQQ LLC to
call up B. Smith and ask him some question, but even that's pretty
rare.  What impresses people is:

	IBM Corp, Network Station XXX
	Digital Equipment Corp, [blah blah]

which translates to `Fortune 100/500 companies build hardware to run
NetBSD'.

So it's name-dropping.  BFD.  It's just like writing a resume --
people want to see big names and important projects.

> > It strikes me that people are treating such an a statement as somehow
> > unwantedly `tainting' the company.  It's amazingly similar to the
> > stigma around `outing' someone as gay or bi...
> 
> Interesting comparison. There's nothing wrong with being gay or bi, but
> you probably wouldn't want other people announcing it if you weren't
> mentally prepared either right?

Maybe.  Maybe not.  But you're arguing about whether *someone else*
would want us to announce it, which is something you can't possibly
know without asking their (usually) marketing people.  And regardless,
`runs NetBSD' should never be treated as a pejorative, as it seems to
be in this discussion.

> Marketing is a complicated matter I have no right to speak on, (so here
> it goes ;-) there are important timing issues. If we make it to people's
> advantage to be involved with NetBSD, they'll hurry to bring it up
> without us asking.

It's already to their advantage.  But guess what?  They don't know
that, because they don't know about the existing, proven cases.  Why?
Because of bogus concerns like the ones you've raised.