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Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 11:17:48 +1030
From: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
To: "Open Systems Inc." <opsys@open-systems.net>,
        "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@zippy.cdrom.com>
Cc: netbsd-advocacy@NetBSD.ORG,
        FreeBSD advocacy list <FreeBSD-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG>,
        advocacy@openbsd.org
Subject: Re: Merging Net/Free/Open-BSD together against Linux
References: <3605.912124752@zippy.cdrom.com> <Pine.BSF.3.96.981126180808.16382A-100000@pinkfloyd.open-systems.net>
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In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.96.981126180808.16382A-100000@pinkfloyd.open-systems.net>; from Open Systems Inc. on Thu, Nov 26, 1998 at 06:31:41PM -0600
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On Thursday, 26 November 1998 at 18:31:41 -0600, Open Systems Inc. wrote:
>
> 	Of course its work. I've heard before from FreeBSD people that behind
> the scenes face to face the netbsd and freebsd people can talk and share
> ideas but once they leave the room and resort to email it just turns into
> flames and disputes. But I could be mis-informed.

I'd say that your information is slightly unbalanced.  Sure, it's no
secret that there have been flamefests in the past.  I think most
people have grown out of that, though.  I also think you underestimate
how much work this is, and that's what Jordan's trying to say.

> 	In my mind the architects from the 3 BSD's getting together is the
> best way to go. It's just an idea, that I think has the best chance of
> working. And im not saying it can be done. The 3 groups may never get
> along well enough to come together on anything. And thats fine. Im
> perfectly happy with the way things are. I run FreeBSD, I'm very pleased
> with the people behind it. As I am sure the NetBSD people are with NetBSD
> and OpenBSD people with OpenBSD. It would be nice to get us all together
> in a more coherent manor but that just might not be in the cards.

Consider the geography.  The FreeBSD team is spread around the world,
and I assume the same applies to the NetBSD and OpenBSD teams as
well.  Sure, many of them could get together at USENIX next year, but
that's a busy time, and I don't see it leading to much consensus about
the topics we're discussing here.  Like it or not, Email's the way we
communicate.

> 	Greg's idea may be a better idea. It might be better to just
> forget about the pipe dream of a mutually represented committee of the 3
> BSD's, and just try and share ideas and code. Setup a forum to discuss
> drivers and other code and maybe setup a box that can be used by all.
> Maybe that wont work either. Who gets commit privs, etc..

I think you can assume that commit privs will remain jealously guarded
in all three projects.  But more information flow would help.  That
can be as simple as having more people join the lists of the other
projects and participate in discussions.

> 	I dunno maybe it just cant be done. Unless like someone said
> earlier someone of impecable standards that NO ONE would argue with
> like kirk stepped in and tried to get things working. But I think we
> all know how likely that would be :-)

I don't think it's impossible that Kirk would step in.  This would
mean coming down from his pedestal, however, and I consider it highly
likely that people then *would* disagree with him.

> This discussion has taken place many times before and maybe it will
> just die again and nothing will come of it.  But maybe this time
> something might give. Who knows. Ill be interested in new ideas that
> pop up and how things turn out this time around though.  Seeing the
> 3 work together would be nice. But im happy if things stay the
> same. So either way is a win IMO.

I suppose the present is a relatively unique time (like all other
times :-) The open source movement is gaining momentum, and the press
is interested in the subject.  Now's a good time for the *BSDs to show
that they're not a group of in-fighters, but people writing reliable
software.

The press is *not* only interested in Linux, BTW: they'd much rather
have something else to talk about that what's been discussed dozens of
times already.  But who's out there feeding *BSD information to the
press?

Greg
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