Subject: Re: Plans for importing ATF
To: Bill Stouder-Studenmund <>
From: matthew sporleder <>
List: tech-userlevel
Date: 11/09/2007 21:19:03
On Nov 9, 2007 6:09 PM, Bill Stouder-Studenmund <> wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 06, 2007 at 05:51:48PM -0500, David Holland wrote:
> > On Tue, Nov 06, 2007 at 10:58:33AM +0100, Julio M. Merino Vidal wrote:
> >  > >>As a matter of fact, there are a couple of sh(1) regression tests
> >  > >>that fail at the moment in current, and I bet they remain unfixed
> >  > >>because no one actually executed the test suite to discover them
> >  > >>(which is understandable because it's not trivial to do).
> >  > >
> >  > >Enh, what's so hard about "cd /usr/src/regress/bin/sh && make
> >  > >regress"?
> >  >
> >  > Doing that is not hard.  But how do you collect the results the run?
> >  > [...]
> >
> > I'm not saying what you've done is bad or not needed, just quibbling
> > with the point you chose to raise. Running the tests for sh is not
> > hard. :-)
> How exactly is this quibbling supposed to help? Also, you seem to have
> ignored part of what jmmv said. As a reminder, he said:
> > First of all, I think it's an excellent tool for developers.  Every
> > time you touch a specific piece of code, say sh(1), you can easily go
> > to the tests tree, run the tests and ensure that you have not broken
> > anything.
> He didn't say that running the tests now is hard. He said that with ATF it
> will be easy to run the tests and ensure that you have not broken
> anything.
> The second half of the text is key. Among other things it add interpreting
> the results of the regression tests to the mix. That's where I find the
> difficulty now.
> I personally find something that says "PASS" "PASS" "FAIL" a lot clearer
> than what I've seen in the pthread regression tests (I haven't looked at
> the sh tests so I don't know how clear they are or aren't). As best I can
> tell, if we don't hang, we pass. :-) Only one of them actually says,
> "PASS" on success.
> > But improving the mechanism alone won't necessarily help the problem.
> > It *isn't* hard to run the regression tests for sh, so why don't more
> > people do so? I think the primary reason is that we tend to forget
> > they're there. So it's important to increase the visibility. Doing a
> > nightly test run and sending the results to current-users would be a
> > good start.
> >
> > (In fact, one can start right away with something as simple as
> >
> >       cd src/regress
> >       make regress >& LOG
> >       rcsdiff -u LOG | mail -s 'Nightly regress run' current-users
> >       ci -l -m `date +%Y%m%d` LOG
> >
> > until you're ready to commit the new stuff. There are problems doing
> > it this way of course, but it works surprisingly well in practice.)
> I think if we get to where we have a summary output, then we can think
> about sending it to current-users. I think that sending the current output
> of, for instance, the libpthread regression tests would be so useless to
> the majority of people as to be spam. I see you would only send the diffs,
> which is a lot less info. The problem I see here is that if someone misses
> a post, they miss a new error.
> I think auto-reporting is good! I think we just need to print some sort of
> quick summary of problem areas ("lib/libpthread reports failures"), then
> more info below ("test lib/libpthread/X failed"), then a URL so folks can
> go see the exact results.
> > I did just discover a problem: src/regress/Makefile is missing any
> > reference to src/regress/bin. Maybe that's part of why the tests for
> > bin get no attention.

If netbsd got to the point where every userland tool and every major
kernel system had tests defined, and the results of those tests were
posted as a nice rrd on releng, then we would have something pretty
special for something the size of an OS.  :)