Subject: Re: full duplex ethernet trouble
To: Charles M. Hannum <>
From: John Nemeth <>
List: tech-userlevel
Date: 07/26/2004 23:19:22
On Dec 15, 10:29pm, "Charles M. Hannum" wrote:
} On Friday 23 July 2004 18:44, John Nemeth wrote:
} > On Nov 7, 11:19am, Havard Eidnes wrote:
} >
} > } > This is a bug, and it should be fixed.
} > }
} > } Well, Charles says "yes", so it must be true! ;-)  (Seriously, I trust
} > } his statement on this; I don't have that particular detailed knowledge
} > } to tell that myself, though.)
} >
} >      I realise that Charles has contributed a great deal to NetBSD
} > (including apparently spending his own money to do trade show booths)
} > and obviously knows a great deal about operating systems, but does he
} > know enough about networking to be considered an authority in that
} > area?  Deferring to authority can be dangerous, especially if the
} > authority in question is not an authority in the area in question.
} I guess we'll ignore the fact that I've developed several networking products 
} over the last few years, and have specifically dealt with this issue with 

     I'm not ignoring anything.  I was not aware of this.  However,
networking is a very large field and saying that you have worked on
networking products doesn't tell me how much knowledge you have of
ethernet and standards pertaining to it.

} real customers, because it's more fun to create strawmen.

     Who probably had invalid configurations.  I didn't create a
strawman, I made a very valid point.

} You're not exactly strengthening your already weak case.

     I don't see my case as weak at all.  In fact, you haven't said
anything about my point that NetBSD's behaviour is standards conforming
(mostly due to the fact that the standards don't specify anything
besides "auto").  In other words, you've ignored the main point, and
simply danced around it.  I've already agreed that NetBSD's behaviour
may be less then optimal and that is sufficient reason to change.  But,
less then optimal is not the same thing as buggy.  Changing it can also
help people who insist on doing things they shouldn't do.  However,
unless you can show me that NetBSD is in violation of the applicable
ethernet standards, I will not agree with your statement that it is
buggy, since it does what it is supposed to do.

}-- End of excerpt from "Charles M. Hannum"