Subject: Re: take 2; which way should we go for /etc/rc...
To: None <>
From: der Mouse <mouse@Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA>
List: tech-userlevel
Date: 12/08/1999 08:55:14
>>> f)	Full SYSV style run levels.
>>> 	Cons:
>>> 		- does it really win us anything.

Of course, "does it really win us anything" rather needs to be
answered; change for the sake of change is no better than no-change for
the sake of no-change.  (And yes, I've seen a few attempts at answering
it, of varying degrees of convincingness.)

>>> 		- This is BSD.
>> Yep.  If NetBSD starts down this path, then I (and probably others)
>> will be looking at switching OS'es.  One of the big reasons that I
>> use NetBSD is precisely because it is BSD.
> I have a problem with this kind of reasoning. I am rather
> disappointed by the people who still have the religious SysV vs. BSD
> standpoint.

Why?  What's disappointing about my ("our", I guess I should say)
wanting to use a system I (we) like, one I'm (we're) comfortable using?

Or is it just that you're disappointed that I could be comfortable with
one and not the other?

> If you don't like runlevels, ok, but please specify the reasons why
> you think it's ugly.  Don't use the "it's not BSD" argument, if you
> can call it an argument at all.

Why not?  It's reason enough for me (and John, it seems).  Just because
it's not a reason you find significant doesn't necessarily make it
worth dismissing out of hand.

There are others, though.  The biggest one for me is probably that
runlevels pick a very few system states to give names to, with no
standardization of what name corresponds to what state (witness the
recent discussion about what meaning various OSes assign to the various
runlevels).  Worse, they force the system state modification scripts to
be fractured into many pieces - as many as there are state transitions
possible - which is hell on human investigation and modification.
(Some OSes with runlevels instead have sets of scripts for leaving one
state and another set for entering another, a scheme that's rather
badly broken because whether you want to do something on leaving a
state often depends on which state you're leaving it for, and
conversely for entering the new state.)

> If you want pure BSD, go get yourself a VAX and run 4.3.

Like John Nemeth, I'm getting more and more tempted.  A few of you may
recall the fuss I made a few years back over the tty driver.  Every
time NetBSD deviates further from BSD, I get less comfortable with it.
So far, the positive side has continued to win out; I don't know how
much longer this will continue to be true.

					der Mouse

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