Subject: Re: Proposed rc.d changes....
To: Jones, Carrie (Bowen) <>
From: Mason Loring Bliss <>
List: tech-pkg
Date: 05/19/2000 14:51:38
On Tue, May 02, 2000 at 04:27:26PM -0600, Jones, Carrie (Bowen) wrote:

> Greg, I have no idea if you are deliberatly trying to post inflamatory
> comments, or if you are just caught up in the excitement of ideas that
> have been bouncing around for the last day, but I suggest that you take
> a good long look at what you just wrote. I believe that the "charade"
> of trying to isolate "third-party software" was done for good reasons.

With /usr/local, this makes sense - stuff can be messy, and there isn't
a standard way to remove things. With NetBSD's pkgsrc, there's a standard
way to remove things, and it's an amazingly clean system. There isn't
a need to create an artificial distinction. With the possibility of the
base system become pkg-ized, the distinction becomes even more arbitrary.

I find that I install packages I need to run my system. I don't install
random stuff just to have it installed - I use things I install, oftentimes
as much as I use things that are part of the base system.

> I am running on less than new architechtures and if you put third party
> config files in /etc, it will require even LONGER to reboot when I've
> got a problem,


> and reinstall will become a nightmare.

Good backups should make this easier for you.

> I realize why he did this, but because he did so, the only people who
> have so far posted are pro-rc.d*, and likely it will remain this way
> because pro-rc.conf have been told they cannot offer opinions.

FWIW, a real-world note: Just about everything at work runs on NetBSD,
and I was quite happy with everything up until rc.d was implemented and
I started using it at home and on a couple newer boxes at work. Now the
non-rc.d systems seem somewhat cumbersome to use as compared with the
rc.d systems. :) I personally like the idea of easily machine-managed
rc.conf information, incidentally, even though I like the convenience
of the central rc.conf file. However, I fully expect our the upcoming
virc implementation to be pleasurable to use, and I expect that I'll
start to dislike the monolithic rc.conf after a while of using the
distributed version. (Already I can enjoy the prospect of scp-ing
around config files.)

The thing to remember is that this is a volunteer project, and that
people want to use NetBSD simply because they want to use NetBSD. The
full likelihood is that the system will become nicer and nicer to use,
while always allowing space for folks who want the traditional methods.

   Mason Loring Bliss             E w i g e
awake ? sleep : dream;  Meerschweinchenkraft