Subject: Re: NetBSD master CVS tree commits
To: Hubert Feyrer <>
From: Tim Rightnour <>
List: tech-pkg
Date: 07/25/1998 04:04:23
On 25-Jul-98 Hubert Feyrer spoke unto us all:
#  Sure not, but you decide to have the service when you pkg_add/make 
#  install whatever you're doing.

Yeah.. but I don't think that qualifies the machine to just run off and run the
binary..  What if I'm building on an NFS server for a farm of machines..  

#  I've helped setting up some machine for some Linux wheenie recently, and 
#  wow was he surprised some things did *not* work out of the box after 
#  pkg_add... certainly things like adding things to config files like the 
#  apache modules.

I agree.. things should be all set up, and ready to go.  Look at windows.. 
(bad example.. but follow me here)  You install it, it makes its goffy icon, it
does all its underbelly stuff.. but It doesn't (usually) run it unless you go
and "click".

I think we should be far more integrated as far as installing stuff..  We
should leave the user at a prompt.. where he can just run his program.  If that
means making a few installs slightly interactive.. thats fine..

Just because I installed a game, doesn't mean I want to play *right now*.

#  The deal if the pkg system was and is to make things for _users_ as easy 
#  as possible. Introducing any additional manual intervention is bad.

I don't mind things being easy for users.. heck.. I'm all for it.. I just would
*really* like to stop the "surprise! your running mysqld as root on port 61!"

And I *certainly* don't ever want to see apache go and run itself just because
I installed it..  My ideal situation is this:

We either make the pkg interactive, and say "do you want to do this" or tell
them, "run this to do this" then:
add apache to /etc/rc.local
do whatever else needs to be done to let the user have a working setup..
run it (shiver) and *tell them it is running*

One of my big points here is security..  I can't personally vouch for the fact
that there are no remote security holes in the default setup of mysql.  How do
I know the act of it running, as root, and me not knowing it has launched off,
hasn't opened my system up to a possible vulnerablity?  I don't mind that the
program runs to test itself.. thats not only reasonable.. but a *good* idea to
test things before saying "build is done".  But it certainly violates the
principal of least surprise.

#  Said that, someone should add some sane config files to our fvwm2 pkg, 
#  and probably others as well.

You speak as if there are sane config files for fvwm2.  I can donate mine.. but
It's probably highly me-centric. (I can get rid of a few things on it.. and
make it at least useful if need be..  lemme know)

Tim Rightnour    -