der Mouse, On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 11:40:09PM -0500, der Mouse wrote: [...] > > Now you seems a critic, not a developer or user. > > What's your purpose on this thread? > > In this thread, yes, that's primarily what I am - well, user too, but > primarily critic of the direction I saw things going. (I use the past > tense because of the recent voices saying that It Ain't Gonna Happen. > I'm still slightly concerned about how far it *will* go in that > direction, but reassured to hear it's not going as far as I feared.) See, this is the thing. You state your fears as done deals, and you have to understand that there is nothing more irritating to the people that do the work you're afraid of. You've been waving that executable stack issue for many years now, and let me tell you, it gets old after a while. I know of only one sure way to keep binary compatibility. I know of only one sure way of keeping your (as in der Mouse's) current experience of NetBSD. That way is not doing anything. And I certainly cannot promote that solution. And I don't think you can either, even though you tried with your 1.4T. > I don't have the time to devote to NetBSD I once did. I still admin > NetBSD systems, at home and at work, and speak mostly as a user and > admin. When it's one of the few things important enough for me to > devote some of my personal time to it, or when it's something I can do > on work time (eg, the recent "partitioning >2TB" thread), I still try > to contribute where I can. But that doesn't give you the right to undermine other people's work, especially when you're so obviously not concerned by it. The subject of this thread is still "desktop NetBSD". > Does this mean my value has gone negative? Perhaps. I suspect it > depends on the extent to which the value metric used aligns with my > opinions. If the Project's opinion of my value goes negative, I expect > to get mail from core, or board, or some such, saying so, in which case > I'll go away. Now that's a poor rhetoric trick you know. Does your value has become negative? Generally speaking, it's very hard to say, and you know that, because as you stated, you still contribute. In this thread, however, I can tell you that your value is certainly negative. No matter what comes out of that idea of providing a NetBSD distribution fit for a broader audience, it's not something that you will have any final interest in, and everybody knows that. Whining pre-emptively against the inconvenience those ideas might cause to your future experience of NetBSD is not something that can be considered positive by any calculation. The other part of the rhetoric trick is keeping your contributions hostage. Ah, the good old "love me or I'll kill myself" argument. I've been a teenager too, but I guess I remember it better than you because it's probably a lot more recent. Well, let me tell you how I see things here. You pissed off Andrew big time, and I know first hand that you pissed off some other people. Of course I have no control over you going or over Andrew stopping his contributions or over other people leaving the project. But if I were to choose, say between you and Andrew, you'd pack a bag and hit the road. Sure, I wouldn't be happy about it, considering your contributions and your awesome coding skills (even though I hate your coding style, but I disgress), but I wouldn't hesitate. And please get over the executable stack issue. Please. And let people discuss what could be "desktop experience" of NetBSD. There is nothing set in stone yet, so let them try and you'll complain wh^Wif there is something to complain about. Heck ask Jared how I feel about that desktop experience thing, you'll see how much that irritates him. But I'm not selfish enough to blind myself from the value of providing it to new and inexperienced users, so I'll just watch and see how it goes. And complain if there is something to complain about. -- Quentin Garnier - cube%cubidou.net@localhost - cube%NetBSD.org@localhost "See the look on my face from staying too long in one place [...] every time the morning breaks I know I'm closer to falling" KT Tunstall, Saving My Face, Drastic Fantastic, 2007.
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