Subject: Re: Please Revert newlock2
To: Bucky Katz <>
From: Thor Lancelot Simon <>
List: tech-kern
Date: 02/21/2007 01:31:24
On Tue, Feb 20, 2007 at 10:04:39PM -0800, Bucky Katz wrote:
> Thor Lancelot Simon <> writes:
> > If we did, this problem wouldn't exist.  But we don't.  The SA code
> > can not simply be magically dropped into a newlock2 kernel with no
> > changes; it wouldn't even compile.  So that, clearly, is not on the
> > menu, since I assume you'd like the operating system to compile.
> I got that. I gave up. You may stop trying to convince me that you are
> unable to do this now. Fixing this problem is beyond the NetBSD
> developers. Understood.

It is a volunteer project, and I don't see you volunteering to do
this particular task, either -- though I find this curious since you
seem to think it would be much easier than everyone else involved does!

> > It is probably the case that any changes you've fed back to NetBSD can
> > go into, if not 4.0, some future 4.x branch release.
> OK, now I'm getting _really_ frustrated.  I was told, on current,
> that it would be easy to get our changes pulled up into 4.0.  I even
> recall someone volunteering to do so.  Are you now saying you're not
> even willing to do that?

No, of course I'm not saying that.  I am trying to point out that _if_
you have any changes you would like to see in the netbsd-4 branch which
for some hypothetical reason might not be able to go into the 4.0
release, even _then_ there will be future 4.x releases into which such
changes could go.

You know, you keep using this "you" as if to impute some kind of
personal authority (or guilt?) to people who are trying to communicate
with you what they, personally, think about the likely collective
behavior of a project that is made up of about 300 different people.
It strikes me as silly but (when repeated) verging on deliberately
obtuse.  It is no more the case that I, personally and individually,
decide which pullups will be in NetBSD 4.0 than that Jason Thorpe,
personally and individually, decides what kernel threading support will
be in NetBSD in the future.  Any residual doubts about this can
presumably be cleared up by noting that I am not presently on the
release engineering team and Jason is not presently a member of core
(though we have both done those jobs in the past) -- this is all
well-documented, public information.

You keep saying that nobody keeps you informed and that things go on
where you can't see them; both of us probably have considerably more
regular interaction with more people in NetBSD than you do, and we are,
quite simply, trying to help address one of the issues about which
you've expressed considerable discontent.  That's all.  There is no
nefarious intent, and, really, no need to read "X isn't going to happen"
as "I am in charge and I say X isn't going to happen" nor "If you can't
get some of your changes into Y, you can probably get them into Y.1" as
"I will not permit your changes into Y but good luck getting them into