Subject: Re: Forget it (dev_t)--do it yourself.
To: Ty Sarna <>
From: Ted Lemon <>
List: tech-kern
Date: 01/16/1998 13:57:52
> Why is Todd, who was being quite flexible, being criticized for not
> being even more flexible, while Charles isn't expected to modify his
> behavior? His admirable technical knowlegde should *not* be a license to
> act like a jerk. I get the feeling that Todd and others are considered
> expendable by the project, while Charles is not, and as a result people
> are expected to conform their behavior to work with him, rather than the
> other way around. 

I'm not trying to excuse Charles' behaviour.  In fact, if you had read
my whole message you'd have seen that I criticised it.  On the other
hand, it is certainly the case that Charles has contributed much more
to the project than has Todd, and has a much better general sense of
what "the right thing to do" is.

Should he not flame?  Yes.  Can we make him stop flaming?  I don't
think so.  Is it worth it to us to put up with his flaming?  Like it
or not, I think it probably is.   Was the flame completely unprovoked?
I don't think so.

> Wait a second... we shouldn't shoot people down for being impolite, but
> we should shoot them down for not putting up with impolite people.

How is what I said in my previous message "shooting Todd down?"

> It's OK to be a jerk, but wrong not to put up with someone being a
> jerk?

I didn't say that.

> What kind of value system is that? If you have kids, would you raise
> them that way? It's time for someone to stand up and say "This is
> wrong.  Enough is enough."

Say what you want.   I have certainly had plenty of interactions with
Charles that made me so mad I could spit.   I'd like him to stop it.
On the other hand, when I raise my children, I will raise them to know
how to deal with people who sometimes act like jerks but still add
value.   I hope you will do likewise.   This is the real world, not a
fantasy land where everybody plays nice.

If you want to publically chastise Charles for his behaviour, you're
welcome to, but don't chastise me for telling Todd how to deal with