In article <199602231240.HAA16762@Collatz.McRCIM.McGill.EDU>,
der Mouse  <mouse@Collatz.McRCIM.McGill.EDU> wrote:
> That said, I'm not that sure I like the proposed mechanism, with a
> parallel set of ioctls.  That means that either stty needs a somewhat
> ugly kludge or you can't use stty to frob the first-open state.

And worse, it doesn't even solve the problem! As explained, the problem
is that defaults are needed because opening the device and issueing an
ioctl to change them leaves a window where a character can be echoed.
Yet, the proposed solution has the same window, from the time when the
device is opened until the defaults are changed. Granted the window only
exists once, but it still exists!