Subject: Re: PF and Darren Reed
To: Perry E. Metzger <>
From: Jim Wise <>
List: regional-nyc
Date: 03/19/2004 17:19:31
Hash: SHA1

On Fri, 19 Mar 2004, Perry E. Metzger wrote:

>>>No, really - why not? People quote Hitler, Stalin, and Bush all the time,
>>>and they are certainly evil motherfuckers. So why not?
>> Well, there we have it, ladies and gentlemen.  If Mr. Klos, at this
>> presumably stage in his development not only a.) sees no good reason not
>> to hold a mass-murdering dictator up as a source of wisdom in a .sig
>You can quote vicious murderers for reasons other than to note how
>clever or wise they are. For example:

Leaving aside your fascinating classification of Bush, are you _really_
suggesting that this was what Mr. Nordin was doing?

>"The Iraqi regime is a threat of unique urgency. . . . [I]t has
>developed weapons of mass death."
>        -- President Bush, October 2, 2002

True to the letter -- as Mr. Hussein's regime itself admitted in 1991,
but 3 years after _using_ those very weapons on it's own people.

>"Today the world is . . . uniting to answer the unique and urgent
>threat posed by Iraq."
>        -- President Bush, November 20, 2002

Likewise true.  And a coalition of over seventy nations has since
eliminated that threat.

>"Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons
>of mass destruction. There is no doubt he is amassing them to use
>against our friends, against our allies, and against us."
>        -- Vice President Cheney, August 26, 2002:

Three months after this statement, in November of 2002, the UN Security
Council voted _unanimously_ (including France, Germany, Russia, and
China) that Saddam Hussein had violated UN Resolutions calling for the
destruction of his Chemical and Biological weapons.  If you believe
Cheney lied in this statement, you believe that these governments did as
well.  Do you?

>"Now, transport yourself forward a year, two years, or a week, or a
>month, and if Saddam Hussein were to take his weapons of mass
>destruction and transfer them, either use them himself, or transfer
>them to the Al-Qaeda, and somehow the Al-Qaeda were to engage in an
>attack on the United States, or an attack on U.S. forces overseas,
>with a weapon of mass destruction you re not talking about 300, or
>3,000 people potentially being killed, but 30,000, or 100,000
>. . . human beings."
>        -- Secretary Rumsfeld, November 14, 2002

And this statement was made a mere three _days_ after the UN ruled that
he had such weapons, so again it's not clear what you're objecting too.

That said, here are some other quotes you chose to omit:

`` Some have said we must not act until the threat is imminent. Since
when have terrorists and tyrants announced their intentions, politely
putting us on notice before they strike? If this threat is permitted to
fully and suddenly emerge, all actions, all words, and all
recriminations would come too late. Trusting in the sanity and restraint
of Saddam Hussein is not a strategy, and it is not an option.''
	-- President Bush, State of the Union Address, January 28, 2003

``We must be prepared to stop rogue states and their terrorist clients
_before_ they are able to threaten or use weapons of mass destruction
against the United States and our allies and friends. Our response must
take full advantage of strengthened alliances, the establishment of new
partnerships with former adversaries, innovation in the use of military
forces, modern technologies, including the development of an effective
missile defense system, and increased emphasis on intelligence
collection and analysis.''
	-- The National Security Strategy of the United States of
	   America, National Security Council, September 17, 2002

``And given that, it's important for us not to fall back on the
arguments that some have made that we should not act until the threat is
imminent or until we've been struck. We cannot afford to have such an
attack ever take place against the United States. And the only way to
prevent that is to ensure that, first of all, the terrorists never
acquire or develop weapons of mass destruction, and, secondly, that we
go out and defeat the terrorists on their home ground before they ever
get a chance to launch an attack again inside our cities.''
	-- Vice President Cheney, October 9, 2003

``whoever has the honor of holding the Oval Office must take every
threat seriously, must deal with threats before they become imminent,
must be firm with our resolve to keep America secure, must never relent
to the enemies that would harm us because of what we love.''
	-- President Bush, March 4, 2004

`` And then, as the economy kind of started to recover from those three,
I made a tough decision, and that is to deal with threats before they
fully materialize, threats abroad before they become imminent. And that
obviously was not only in Afghanistan, but in Iraq. I looked at
intelligence and saw a threat. Congress looked at intelligence and saw a
threat. The United Nations Security Council looked at the intelligence
and it saw a threat.''
	-- President Bush, February 26, 2004

- -- 
				Jim Wise
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