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Re: qt multi- and broadcast (was Re: dhcpcd not working in simh-vax with xq0:nat networking)



Wow. I was obviously a bit behind on this thread. Caught up now.

Anyway. I saw the same thing Mark discovered. The DELQA-T unconditionally always receive the all ones multicast packets (broadcast). The imprecise filter is in addition to this one multicast address.

The normal DELQA as well as the DEQNA have an explicit list of multicast addresses it receives.

And basically, the NetBSD driver do not need any changes. It's perfectly correct in this aspect today. It was just that simh was doing things wrong, but it sounds like Mark have already fixed it.

And yes, as far as I know, the DELQA uses the LANCE chip. That's what the L in DELQA also stands for.

But the DELQA has its own firmware outside of the chip, so you can't make any assumptions about the operation based on how the LANCE works.

  Johnny

On 2021-12-12 22:14, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm wrote:
On Sunday, December 12, 2021 at 12:54 PM, Rhialto wrote:
On Sun 12 Dec 2021 at 20:19:42 +0000, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm wrote:
This sounds completely reasonable.  Is there anything in the qt driver
which deals with these ioctl functions?  The code which handles that in qt
should be common with (or copied from) other drivers which use LANCE
chips...

Nope, that's completely missing in the qt driver.

There are LANCE drivers all over the place, it seems; that makes it a
bit confusing to find the right parts.
sys/arch/vax/if/if_le_vsbus.c is a VAX version which defers to
sys/dev/ic/am7990.c and/or sys/dev/ic/lance.c. Finally in that file
there is

Sounds confusing.  The logic is also in sImh's sim_ether.C since it
implements the behavior of the hardware.

Now here comes my ignorance about hardware:
Does the DELQA-T mode indeed use a LANCE chip (or just something a bit
similar)? Does the DELQA-normal mode use it too, or does the card have 2
chips? (That would be more expensive...) If both modes use it, how can
they have such different programming models?

Good question.  I'm guessing there is no extra hardware, I think the
DELQA-T mode just lets the OS driver get a little closer to the chip.  I
suspect that the rest of the DEQNA emulation in the DELQA-T merely uses
the LANCE chip in promiscuous mode and provides the working DEQNA
interface behavior in firmware.  As I understand things, the point of the
smarter mode is to have a rock solid control protocol with minimal need
for the driver to touch the hardware.  There were problems with
synchronization issues with the original DEQNA hardware implementation
of the buffer handling protocol that actually required DEC to replace all
early versions of the DEQNA in the field with at least new firmware and
possibly other ECOs.  These were absolutely deployed outside of Digital
and as I recall they provided an advance swap model for users.

QE Broadcast packet reception must be explicitly enabled as mentioned
at the end of paragraph three in 3.6.2.4:
      The broadcast Ethernet address (all Is) may be optionally enabled.

Ah yes, I read that differently (probably not as intended), as "you can
include it if you insist, but it's not needed really".

It was this requirement in DEQNA mode and the fact that VMS provided
the Multi-cast hash with the broadcast bit set that led me to assume
broadcast wasn't part of the basic functionality of DELQA-T mode.

- Mark

--
Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
                                  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt%softjar.se@localhost             ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive!                     ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol


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