> On Wed, 12 Apr 2000, Alexander Bochmann wrote:
> 
> > I'm still poking around in my sun3/160, trying to get 
> > it to work somehow... 

Aren't we all.....but finally, mine is up and running.

> > As NetBSD doesn't support the scsi controller in the 
> > box, I have tried to install SunOS, but it seems, it 
> > doesn't even really work there.

It depends upon which controller you really have.
The sun3 controllers are supported, and mine run that fine on
NetBSD and sun2 controllers on sunos.

> 	Bummer :/
> 
> > According to the sun hardware reference file, I have a 
> > "6U VME Sun-2 SCSI host adapter" in a 6U/9U frame for the 
> > 3/160. I assume, that's what is called the "sc" controller 
> > in NetBSD?
> > 
> 	Should be.

That only works with sunos, AFIK.

> > The same controller is in the other sun3 I have been working 
> > with, but there it at least used to work with SunOS. In this 
> > system, I don't seem to be able to boot from disks attached 
> > to the controller (with SunOS), although everything up to 
> > this point including bad sector list management and formatting 
> > and putting disklabels on the drive and copying the miniroot 
> > rom the boot tape to the swap space works. Just to boot the 
> > miniroot afterwards doesn't...
> > 
> > Interestingly, I get different errors from the bootrom prompt, 
> > depending on what drive I connect.

Drives on old suns are finicky.  I find quantums do well, but
some others don't.  Mine currently sport sun0669 drives (Maxtors
if memory is correct).

A lot of problems on old suns, in my hands, stems only partially
from the drives, and only partially from the length of the cabling.
Some problems are due to the speed of the drives, and whether or
not the drives sit on the end of the cable.  The maximum drive length
on the bus is about 3 meters, in my hands, and only two drives plus
tape.  More than that seems to load the bus down, too much.

Note that the sun2 controllers used scsi interposer boards to adapt
esdi and mfm drives to the bus, and qic tape drives to the bus.
The interposer boards had ids of 0 and 1, and the drives had ids
of 0 and 1 on each interposer board.

> > When I attach a 640MB Seagate Wren2 drive, there is just a
> >   scsi: timeout
> >   scsi: no such controller on scsi bus
> >   scsi: no such controller on scsi bus
> > after the b sd command
> > 
> > With a Quantum ProDrive 85S, I get
> >   scsi: timeout
> >   sd: error 70 0 5 0 0 0 0 1 20 0 0
> >   sd: error 70 0 5 0 0 0 0 1 20 0 0
> > 
> > If I disconnect the Emulex controller with the QIC24 tape 
> > drive from the bus, I also get the "no such controller..." 
> > message with the Quantum drive...?
> > 
> > Interestingly, I also can't seem to be able to set the 
> > first bit of the scsi ID on any drive connected to the bus, 
> > so I never get to have an sd3 (although the miniroot stuff 
> > etc. also seems to work automagically when the disk is sd4 
> > or sd6 - doesn't matter when trying to boot, by the way).
> > The cable looks fine, as far as I have seen.

Drive numbering alternates by twos.  The first controller has
two drives max, and the second controller has two drives max,
and the tape has its own controller.  Putting straight scsi
drives on the bus makes the drives jump by twos on sunos...0, 2, 4, etc.
That sometimes leads to problems.  If you get no such controller,
your drive ID's are possibly not what you think they are to the
system.

When I run straight drives on my machines, I can put no more than two
on the bus plus tape, under most circumstances.  The hardware drive
ID's are 0 and 1, and the machine thinks they are 0 and 2.

> > Any ideas, what I can do short of just throwing all the 
> > stuff on the next junk pile? Anyone with a spare "sun3 
> > scsi" controller?

Fiddle with it a bit.  I am expecting it is not something too
far off.

Are you sure your tape drive is actually reading sunos correctly?
I have very bad problems with the rubber drive wheels decomposing
on almost all my 60mb tape transports (Wangtek and Archive).
Touch your tape drive wheel.... if it is sticky, you are getting
drive errors and that is probably some of your problem.  The wheel
is decomposing if it is in the least sticky feeling.  That leads
to poor tape movement and unexpected errors.

> 	Have you tried swapping things out with the other sun?
> 	Alternatively you could always netboot :)

That should do, too.

Bob