On Wed, 17 Dec 1997, Jeff Thieleke wrote:
> So what we have here is a Sun employee with access to documentation, but
> little low-level experience.  His job is basically to help out vendors
> who are in the process of porting to the UltraSparc (like NetBSD? :)

Yes, like NetBSD.  There you go, you've got your contact man. =)

> The natural conclusion (to me, at least) is that we (NetBSD users and
> developers, if not core) should offer assistance to Jason, in return
> for inclusion in the porting process and information pipeline.

There is another person (Ian Logan) who is now working on supporting
sun4m.  He has been digging into NetBSD's code, an he probably has
questions about it.  I'll also be pulling from NetBSD, so if you all are
willing to answer questions from time to time, that would help out a
bunch.

Chances are that enough of NetBSD's code is going to end up in FreeBSD
that you won't have much problem with moving our changes back into NetBSD. 

> Taking the attitude expressed in the subject of this email is really
> counterproductive to NetBSD, and ultimately to Jason and FreeBSD/sparc.

Well, to some extent, the fact that there are multiple BSDs is
counterproductive.  I try to look on the bright side though in that
cross-pollenation improves the overall quality of all of the BSDs.  Though
there's a lot of effort that goes into this, there are some benefits. 

There are certain indirect advantages to the NetBSD project that come as a
result of the SPARC FreeBSD project.  In particular, it should force a
better split of FreeBSD into machine dependent/independent parts, which
will allow easier sharing of code between the two projects.  

> > Q.3.) Why not start from NetBSD/OpenBSD?
> > 
> > Answered by Jason Evans (jasone@cannonware.com).
> > 
> > There are multiple answers to this:
> > 
> > 1) SME specifically wants a FreeBSD port because that's what potential
> >    customers have been clamoring for.
> > 
> > 2) I'm particularly attached to FreeBSD, but don't like supporting Intel
> >    (both because of their business practices and because of the quality of
> >    their products).
> 
> Good question, but unfortunately it goes unanswered...

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing yesterday as I read over the FAQ.
Maybe I'll try to come up a better answer in the next couple of days.

> I wonder if the potential customers know enough about NetBSD to decide what
> to clamor over?  And since they probably have a whole lot of non-Ultra
> Sparc machines, wouldn't they be interested in a single Free OS that allow
> them to create a homogenious environment across all of their Sun systems?

My guess is that there are three main reasons people are asking for
FreeBSD particulary:

1) Some of them have already implemented systems using FreeBSD.

2) FreeBSD has more press exposure (that I've seen), so it's better known.

3) FreeBSD's VM subsystem is quite excellent.

Reason 2) is a poor reason to choose FreeBSD.  1) and 3) make some sense
though.  I've been told a number of times that NetBSD will be merging in
FreeBSD's VM within the next year (likely with some improvements even), so
3) could go away as well. Little can be done about 1), which is SME's
primary motivation for porting FreeBSD. 

> Quick!  Someone drop Jason a note about NetBSD before he wasted a lot of
> time reinventing the wheel.  There is just no way that adding UltraSparc
> support to NetBSD would be anywhere as complicated as totally reworking
> FreeBSD into FreeBSD/sparc.

My address was messed up in the header of this message, but I still got
it because I've been lurking in your mailing list for several weeks now.

You're right that NetBSD would be an easier starting point.  Even a number
of FreeBSD users pointed this out to me at an early stage.  Simply put, I
don't have a choice of which BSD I start with, so I haven't given it much
more thought.

> I wouldn't want to derail his plans, or otherwise impead FreeBSD/sparc
> progress, but it seems like this is a golden oppertunity for NetBSD
> to gain from some "inside knowledge" to flesh out the Sparc support. And
> at the same time, start to bring NetBSD and FreeBSD closer together, even
> if only in this one area.

I expect to benefit in major ways from the work you all have done on SPARC
NetBSD.  I also hope that you can benefit from the work I do on FreeBSD. 

Most of what I've read in mailing lists infers that the FreeBSD and NetBSD
camps aren't in major oppposition to each other.  I hope it will be the
same in this case.  Clearly, everything I do is available to NetBSD.  I'm
willing to provide whatever information I can to help out with NetBSD as
well (my time is limited though).

Jason

Jason Evans
Email: [jasone@canonware.com]
Home phone: [(650) 856-8204]
Work phone: [(408) 774-8007]
Quote: ["Invention is 1% inspiration, 99% perspiration" - Thomas Edison]