[re-ordering things]

On May 25, 2005, at 1:31 PM, Chris Tribo wrote:
>
> Out of curiosity, is your machine really version 2.0.2 or is it 2.0.1? 
> I am pretty sure I have one of the late model Wallstreet II/PDQ 
> machines and it has 2.0.1
>

If I ever said 2.0.2, it was meaning NetBSD.  Mine is G3 OF3 machine 
1.4.1.9f1 bootrom
Lately, I've been taking an interest in anything OF or forth related.  
And, I thought perhaps the thread was pointing a way towards casting 
off all macos dependency.
>

> On May 25, 2005, at 6:19 AM, Dan LaBell wrote:
>
>> I may have been  confused here, I was reading system disks patches as 
>> equivalent to firmware updates.  People often complain about having 
>> to have OS9 writable partition to use them, people who have aquired 
>> machines to have install netbsd and have no macos.
>
> You need an OS9 writable partition to flash update OpenFirmware yes, 
> but only versions 3 and higher support flash upgrades.
>  If you could flash versions prior to 3.x then the patches would 
> probably be unnecessary. The patches are not the same as flashing the 
> firmware.

That clears things up -- the way terms get knocked around I was a 
little confused.
Pram is battery-backed and so non-volatile, flash is, of course, as 
well.  Often
I've read get the system disk and apply nvram patches here, leading me 
to think, it was akin to firmware update, but basically these are 
nvramrc patches hacking enough forth to get these older firmware 
machines to boot, and it would seem that one doesn't need a system disk 
at all to do this, it's just a way to drop it into nvramrc.  (Correct?)

>  The first machines that supported OF 3 and flashable firmware were 
> the iMac, Blue and White G3, and the Lombard. Anything with built in 
> USB ports basically.

Curious, my nvramrc seems to be in flash, at least, it seems unaffected 
by dead a pram battery, true of OF2 machines?   Also, I now notice I 
have a node /nvram@ff04000, with forth words, etc, I suppose I could 
dig up some docs and determine if space is being shared in 1 flash, or 
if the bootrom is in another chip, again it's just curiosity
as I have mac os available .   Another idle question: Could nvram be 
updated across firewire?  ( if Firestarter can write to vram of another 
mac across firewire...)

> I'm not aware that there is anything fixed by firmware updates that 
> would be required to run NetBSD, but it certainly would be in your 
> best interests to have the latest firmware. Most of the fix lists for 
> the firmware updates seem to surround things like firewire target disk 
> mode, booting from the network, firewire or USB drives.

True, just adds to ability to boot off your ipod, really, an it's ipod 
feature.  NetBSD is not currently firewire bootable? or am i wrong?   
Firewire disk mode is cool, I haven't tested how it works with 
security-password, I understand it respects it, just haven't tested it, 
I've noticed it works where other hot key's don't, as they are actually 
imp'ed in mac-boot, target disk-mode seems to be done before any forth.

> I can't think of anything show stopping that would prevent NetBSD from 
> running on an old version of the firmware.

Recently, I'm having problem with my mac's screen distorting, and 
collapsing, kinda like
a tv or crt in a brown out, but lasting much longer, and not winking 
out.  Hitting the net I found links to people having the problem who 
didn't apply firmware update 4.1.9 before installing osx, well I had, 
and my boot rom version seems to match the upgrade,
it affects everything, forth, macosx, and NetBSD, sometimes the screen 
just stays off.
I've noticed there's PM update I've never applied though, and if it's 
that I guess I'm glad I have macos available to try the update... It's 
wierd, I can fix it by unplugging the mac for around hour, then it will 
work for a few days.

Then again, my pram battery has been dead for maybe 2 years now, I'm 
also kinda wondering if it may be the battery alone,  I remember once 
not being able jump start a car, and thinking it was in pretty bad 
shape, and mechanic jumped it by taking the battery out completely, he 
sad something like a battery can get so dead it acts like a resistor 
and sucks voltage out of the system... Anyway, I already have a 
battery, it's just a matter of doing backups and taking the mac 
apart...