> At 2:33 AM +0200 6/22/02, Marco van de Voort wrote:
> 
> :)> No, but you can do all of that from the Open Firmware prompt, see the FAQ.
> :)
> :)Euuh, yes, and for Open Firmware 2, it says I can reach it via MacOS, which
> :)I don't have anymore.
> 
> Nah, I meant the part about how to use Open Firmware.  Read starting at
> http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/macppc/faq.html#ofw-use

I did read all that, but my question was more at getting on the OF prompt
without MacOS and OF2 and the fragmentation

I meanwhile found out that if you have a failed MacOS boot, the next time
you get on the OF prompt. 

But I discovered HFSutil, and now the reasons to run MacOS are less.
(I used MacOS to copy files to an external HD, to get data to ny 68k Macs)
 
> :)Indeed, but sometimes that is worth the effort.
> 
> That's not "The NetBSD Way".  Besides, I did a quick study once and it
> really looked like there was not a large volume of content that's specific
> to a particular OF version.  Mostly, it's just a matter of lots of
> exceptions sprinkled everywhere.  The OF-specific docs wouldn't be
> substantially shorter.

There is a lot of model specific info, spread over the various docs.
One page per model (-family) , with links to the Generic parts would be
nice. OTOH, the question rate on this group might not be high enough to
justify spending time on that.

Also things like "comslot ethernet of this model is detected, but not
working", you can't boot from the primary IDE controller, etc, the status
of the sound chip etc. 
 
> Ideally, what needs to happen is for someone who actually knows ROFF to
> figure out how to produce the multiple documents reusing most of the
> contents.  Then someone who understands the contents needs to do the
> actual splitting.

The model specific pages maybe don't have to be in ROFF, but simply list
the model specific parts, and then point directly to the relevant parts,
or copy parts from the main docs.

IOW, keep the current docs as the reference, and the model specific parts as
entry. This way the port specific pages don't have to be existing for each
model, they are an extra. They also can contain hints, hunches etc, that
you don't want in formal double checked docs.

Now that I have done one ppc install, I probably could do the next one
easier with the main docs. I mastered the vocabulary, know to pay attention
to what parts.
 
> :)So even those few (like me) that
> :)actually read docs, but get confused, _have_ to enter the maillists, and ask
> :)questions.
> 
> That's why the docs suggest printing themselves out and crossing out the
> irrellevant parts.  It's kinda like a puzzle :)  And you find that there's
> really only a handful of pages of instructions left.

To put it bluntly:
I'm into the PPC port because of the PPC, if I want to make puzzles, I take
the newspaper.

But as said before, the effort to create clear docs for newbies might be
larger than answering the questions.
 
> Just keep in mind that the procedure is incredibly arcane because we're
> using a hidden feature that Apple never expected anyone to even *know*
> about much less use.  By the time Open Firmware 3 rolled around, they had
> plans to use it, so OF 3 is much more user-friendly (and bug-free).
> OpenBSD gets away with simple instructions because they limit themselves to
> OF 3.

Therefore it is even more important to have clear docs about what we find
out.