this note and the two following have some useful info on using OF. http://developer.apple.com/technotes/tn/tn1061.html -- Paul Beard 8040 27th Ave NE Seattle WA 98115 206 529 8400 Real programmers don't bring brown-bag lunches. If the vending machine doesn't sell it, they don't eat it. Vending machines don't sell quiche.