On Wed, Jul 04, 2001 at 12:57:20PM -0700, Michael Wolfson wrote:
> Right, although that sounds like it's within our power to fix.  Can anyone
> give me an accurate description of the symptoms so I can add it to the
> "Help, I can't boot NetBSD!" part of the FAQ?

I cannot, as I have no access to a titanium PowerBook. (Well, I
sort of do... but it's not mine, and I'd hate for my friend's
after-market RAM to stop working because I wanted to do some
testing.)

> know it's not a problem on the iMac and PowerMac models.  I've been a
> little hesitant to upgrade my PowerBook (FireWire) to test it, since I need
> to use my PowerBook for testing various things I add to the docs.  If
> anyone has info on other models that fail, let me know!

Hrm.

After I read the MacFixIt article, I'm steering clear of any and all
Apple BootPROM patches unless I hear that they'll actually make
something better without breaking anything else. (I mean, if I go
and make sure that all of the DIMMs in some nebulous G4 that I don't
actualy own are capable of CL-3 at 8ns, then I would be interested,
but I'd want to be damn sure.)

It's maybe worth being noisier about the fact that, though it won't
break booting necessarily on other models, one should *very*
carefully examine one's RAM before upgrading the BootPROM.

> Hum.  How would you suggest I reword that section?
> http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/macppc/faq.html#ofw-version

Well, for starters, there are too many "all"s in this sentence:

  All "translucent" models all have OF 3.

;^>

Your comment about Firmware 4.1.7 & ...8 is actually in #ofw-bugs. I
think my complaint is that it *should* be in #ofw-version (where you
discuss the fact that these patches are of the BootPROM rather than
OF itself).

Although, it should probably actually be in both places. If a
wordier version is created (maybe drawing material from the
referenced MacFixIt article?), then it'd belong under #ofw-version.
Imho.

> Three.  iBook, iBook SE, iBook (FireWire), and iBook SE (FireWire) are all
> clamshell "blueberry", "orange", "lime", and the like.  iBook (Dual USB) is
> white (similar to the PowerBook G4 (Titanium).  The names are not quite
> unique, although iBook (FireWire) was the first iBook with FireWire, and
> iBook (Dual USB) was the first iBook with two USB ports.
> 
> http://til.info.apple.com/techinfo.nsf/artnum/n88039
> 
> Apple added that TIL article since the last time I looked for it.  I'm
> adding it to the Model Support page now...

::sigh::

What was *wrong* really, with version NUMBERS?

I mean, IBM's got a pretty wide array of, say, ThinkPad models, but
it's not at all hard to figure out which one you're dealing with
when comparing what you've got to what documentation's available.

I mean, when a newer iBook comes out that has firewire and also two
USB ports, how are folks going to know?

Just seems silly... though it's obviously not *your* fault. ;^>

> Because that's not what Apple calls them.  They have a (for the most part)
> one-to-one name mapping between models and names.  If we stick with that,
> it's easier to uniquely identify a model than if we were to come up with
> our own naming scheme (although I agree Apple should use version numbers).

No argument. And I wasn't suggesting that we actually call anything
the iBook1.5. Thus the smiley. ;^>

I just wish Apple had a *sane* naming scheme.

> Ah, I did indeed speak too fast.  I keep forgetting about the B&W G3
> breakage.  I've got some of Bob's messages describing the
> symptoms/workarounds that I need to integrate into the webpages/INSTALL
> notes.

But that's actually USB breakage, not ADB breakage? Or not?

> I'd rather be noisy about it here.  My guess is that first-time installers
> won't be pre-biased based on old posts to this list, and will instead
> depend on the FAQ/INSTALL notes.  Of course, I could be totally wrong.

Sure... but I'm running NetBSD on at least five different
architectures, and I religeously check INSTALL and UPDATING. So it's
probably the mid-range experience group you're aiming for. ;^>

> Thanks for the feedback and reminder about B&W G3 breakage.

No problem.

Cheers...

-- 
       ~ g r @ eclipsed.net