Napisane 08-Sty-00 przez: Martin Steigerwald...

>> ... and your personal problem... IMHO. 'vi' is there because it is
>EVERYwhere.
>> It is also small, fast and efficient if you know how to use it of course.
If
>> you don't, then EVERY UN*X starter book has a chapter on it.

[...]

>> and I really wouldn't like to to download the base install set with 'emacs'
>> inside! This is of course my opinion but if you don't know how to use 'vi',
>> you shouldn't start any UN*X adventures.

>Okay, emacs might not be a good example?

>Unix adventures? I already installed a dozen of Linux systems... but I
>never had to trouble around with "vi" of any of them...

And that's the point. I haven't written "Linux adventures". Have I? How about
e.g. a remote administration of some other commercial UN*X systems?

>Debian has "ae",
>very simple, but works. RedHat don't need one cause it runs via X11 right
>after installing it.

Still those Linuxes all have 'vi' in every base dist too. Guess why? No. 'vi'
is there to stay. No bashing will help. BTW I am not a 'vi' fan as you might
have been led to believe. IMHO nothing comes close to CED on AmigaOS but if I
was wondering why there is no CED (or emacs, joe, ae,
another-one-of-your-favourite-editors) on base IRIX, Solaris, HP-UX, NetBSD
and so on, then I would never come to a point of understanding those systems
at all...

[...]

>Well but its important to get on that, cause I write an article for an
>Amiga magazine and I am quite sure there are some of such "lamers" lurking
>around wanting to try NetBSD... so if its not for them, I probably should
>clearly say so? 

All UNIX (and unixalikes) systems were designed with the following philosophy
in mind: there are users ("lamers") and admins (superusers). There are also
"wizards" but this is another fairytale. Giving users the superuser privileges
on a working unix system is like giving a razor to a 1-year old baby (or using
MCP under AmigaOS ;-). One never knows what will be cut and when - including
the most vital elements of the system (being it human body or a computer OS).
Thus to be able to consciously run a unix(alike) system on which other people
depend, a certain degree of knowledge is required. You can earn it by cutting
this and that, then getting recovered, cutting something else, getting
recovered again like the baby without a proper upbringing (left alone with the
MCP... sorry... razor). After having more and more scars it may eventually get
enough experience to know what is harmful and need to be avoided and grow up
to a man other can depend on. It also may get more and more frustrated with
every scar and end up killing himself or killing someone else for example just
to let the hate and frustration flow. The other way is to learn with parents
who tell and show the proper way of doing things and explain why the other are
nono... By getting back to our NetBSD stuff we may replace the parents with
books, mans, more seasoned users etc. Of course I understand your point of
view but I thank God now that I started with NetBSD some time ago. One proper
NetBSD installation (which forced me to learn and understand many things) gave
me much more than a dozens of Linux installations afterwards. It gave me a
base that I use from then on. Oh, and yes, it was much more difficult with 1.1
than now.

Am I writing too much?! Yes. I think so...

>> AFAIR all the BFFSs are compatible with... BFFS which is used on all NetBSD
>> systems so far. The last one allows writing to the filesystem but does not
>> make it 'clean' afterwards what means that you will have to 'fsck' the
>> partitions you messed on when you boot NetBSD.

>Not the best option. I guess I will only read from them then.

This 'fsck' is not harmful. Making the filesystem 'clean' means setting a
proper flag only in that case. But I remember me disliking the 'fsck' at boot
time too...

>> It is simple (and AFAIR stated in the docs/faqs) you should explicitly
mount
>> it with '-oro' as it is still not writable.

>Ok, sorry. Probably I should have read this. I was used to the habit on
>Linux that it seen just seems to mount read-only and thats it... no need
>to give an extra option as the computer itself can find out what option to
>use.

The computer (or rather the OS) surely can find "what option to use" but it is
again a kind of NetBSD being a bit more... I would call it "secure" system
than e.g. out of the box Linux. It allows you to do less "by default". It
assumes more that the user should know what she is doing an doesn't try to be
more smart than the user himself. I, personally, prefer this way of treating
me for the long run. I find it (NetBSD) also more mature and stable than
Linux. At least in the Amiga versions. Although it may really be more
difficult to set up by a "let me try unix" user, it gives me much more
confidence (again I am talking about the m68k - specifically: Amiga versions)
in a mission critical applications.

[...]

>Before that I will download pico, emacs or something and I will get some
>of them to work. No, I am a die hard "I will not use vi"-user. ;-)

;-) Just like me... once... ;-)

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