Subject: Re: Desktop application agenda
To: David Brownlee <abs@NetBSD.org>
From: =?UTF-8?B?UHJ6ZW15c8WCYXcgUGF3ZcWCY3p5aw==?= <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Date: 04/16/2007 08:43:14
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On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 01:39:31 +0100 (BST)
David Brownlee <abs@NetBSD.org> wrote:
> >> d) Having more choice of NetBSD installations which come
> >> preconfigured with useful applications.
> > That's what I pointed out, to no avail.
> How an idea is presented can affect it reception :) Appearing
> to advocate adding a large number of applications to the
> existing NetBSD distribution, is going to make those who
> want the very lean install unhappy, while still not providing
> enough for everybody unless you include all of KDE plus all
> of gnome, plus... well, all of pkgsrc
Beg your pardon for delay.
Let it be then "two way" - pkgsrc and meta-packages (or preselected
> NetBSD already ships OS CD images and download, plus similar
> for pkgsrc, the obvious next step is to include something
> like pkg_select in the base system, and offer to run it
> automatically after install.
Your voice reckons. Why no one answered it? Is it only me who wants the
> If installing from CD and there are any binary packages on
> the CD it could offer to install them all, or a selection,
> or it could download packages from a full pkgsrc build.
Couldn't say that simpler.
> >> While I think 'c)' is more useful, this is also a win.
> >> Interestingly we have pkgsrc/sysutils/mklivecd which
> >> allows custom live CDs to be built. I think having an option to
> >> put an installer on that would be very interesting,
> >> particularly when combined with c).
But mklivecd is without any good simplistic article on it. From
practical point of view as well.
> Evolution maybe more then revolution... all when people
> can put in the time. I think you'll find that the most
> people are not against what you want from a NetBSD
> distribution, they are just adverse to being told (or at
> least appearing to be told) that the existing setup which
> works very well for them is junk and needs to be replaced.
I won't change my words. Many people get accustomed to junkyards (untidy
placed books on shelves, electronic parts in drawers, etc) knowing what
and where with blinded eyes. "It works very well" until something
vanishes from the sight or gets forgotten where it was put. With
WWW is another matter. It works up to the time it tumbles down under
its own untidiness. Old users may not be lost, but new users will get
lost right away. Either they ask for a candle or kick the system off.
> Fortunately we can (and IMHO should) be able to fulfill both
> The NetBSD ftp server already hosts the live CD image made
> by freeX ftp://ftp.netbsd.org/pub/NetBSD/iso/livecd/ and
> pkgsrc has the mklivecd and pkg_select packages, and NetBSD
> has within the last release or so imported tools into the
> base system to allow the standard release build to include
> iso images.
> So... whats missing?
Documentation or helping html pages. The focus on the possibilities.
That's what's missed. I still insist the official homepage is a mess
and horrible. Today I've made new project of the page. Look into it:
http://pp.kv.net.pl/lnbsd/index.html A little thought and checking one
against the other will tell more than I could convey via e-mail.
> I'm not saying "this is what will happen", more "this is
> one thing that could happen", and I think its quite
Then "will" or "could"? It tends to appear to me that too
many times resolve is not your (plural) strongest point.
> >> People want different things from NetBSD. We need to try
> >> to pick directions which can give the most people "what they
> >> want", and I think c) and d) from the above are two options in
> >> that.
Why do we think the same way? :-)
> Could I take a step back here - you appear to have a lot
> of enthusiasm and energy and want to help NetBSD. In what
> areas do you think you have the best skills to help, or
> are interesting in extending your skills while helping?
InstallCDs, LiveCDs, LearN@BSD CDs (teaching NetBSD CDs), WWW, and Wiki.
Przemysław (p2o2) Pawełczyk <email@example.com>
The LearN@BSD Project: http://pp.kv.net.pl
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