thus Joseph A. Dacuma spake:
>>> I don't think that binary only drivers are well enough.
>>> Surely better than nothing but ...
>> No fucking way.  No support is FAR FAR better than a blob.  Yes, really!
>>
>>> Don't forget that an open source team sometimes makes api changes
>>> that might break a "binary only" driver. And companies sometimes
>>> are slow in fixing.
>> A.K.A. Never.  And when they try it usually doesn't work right.  Worst of
>> all
>> *you* have no clue how they kludged a so called fix together.  Vendor code
>> is
>> usually pretty darn bad and I wonder why people never revolt against that.
>>
>>> Or the vendor did some mistakes in his own driver.
>>> First the paying customers are served. All the other folks
>>> (open source ..) surely will come last.
>> Open source users paid for the hardware didn't they?  Or because they use
>> an
>> alternative OS now they stole the hardware?  This argument is retarded.
>>
>>> For some smaller corps supporting open source developers is
>>> simply a burden that costs time and so money.
>> Docs are part of the development process.  If they are not than you don't
>> want
>> that hardware.
>>
>>> I know this from a medium sized german company producing nice
>>> audio recording cards.
>>>
>>> It was impossible to get a card and documentation from them for
>>> a FreeBSD developers. And after weeks and months of asking via
>>> e-mail they decided finally to tell the truth that they don't
>>> want to support open source developers anymore, it makes too much
>>> work. They are unable to spend so much time answering open source
>>> developers questions although they got documentation. This experience
>>> they made with Linux developers.
>> I call horseshit on this one too.  Vendors do not have to support shit if
>> they
>> free their docs.  NOTHING because the OS developers will do it for FREE
>> for
>> them.  This argument is a steaming pile of shit with peanuts in it.
>>
>> It is this attitude that is killing Linux and FreeBSD.  They will allow
>> anyone
>> to shit and piss in their sandbox and say "GREAT THANKS!"
>>
>> You people need to get through your heads that blobs are killing your
>> operating
>> system that you pretend to care so much about.  Allowing blobs is the
>> equivalent of eating fast food; it is convenient now but 10 years from now
>> your
>> ass wont fit through the door.
>>
>> A man will fight harder for his interests than for his rights.
>> -- Napoleon Bonaparte
>>
>>> 	Andreas ///
>>>
>>> --
>>> Andreas Klemm - Powered by FreeBSD 6
>>> Need a magic printfilter today ? -> http://www.apsfilter.org/
>>>
> 
> Hi All!
> 
> I agree totally with Mr. Peereboom. IMHO, BLOBS are not sustainable in the
> long run. If a manufacturer decides to retire a particular model (driver
> support included) while OS keeps on releasing newer versions (which
> include changes in the design and/or how things are implemented) one will
> be facing two scenarios: stasis or an unstable system. Both I believe is
> distasteful.

definitely. but on the other hand there's 15 minutes of fame if you 
support a device (using a blob) today -- as others won't support it.

> I'd rather purchase hardware that will enable me to (ab)use it until it no
> longer works (MBTF deadend) using either NetBSD or OpenBSD :).

true, but NetBSD allows blobs.

> Joseph A. Dacuma

timo