thus S.P.Zeidler spake:
> Thus wrote Timo Schoeler (timo.schoeler@riscworks.net):
>> thus S.P.Zeidler spake:
>>>    
>>> Thus wrote Charles Shannon Hendrix (shannon@widomaker.com):
>>>
>>>> I think the whole idea of walling off "the core" and keeping anything
>>>> about this project a secret is just plain wrong.
>>>>
>>>> Why not just make it all public, all the time?
>>> This project consists of a lot of people working on it in their free time.     
>>> You are not going to get to install full video surveillance in my flat
>>> just because I have commit rights.
>>     
>> nobody demanded this. nobody wants to see Homer Simpson scratching his
>> butt, or anyone else forgetting to feed his cat or listening to bad music.
> 
> Oh, but he did. Look up the meaning of the word 'anything' occasionally.

look up the word 'context'.

(...)

>> you may be aware that every mailing list app in use is able to create 
>> lists with read-only accounts (subscribers from the public), so posting 
>> to the list would only be possible for developers. this way, 
>> introduction of the new scheduler (ABI) can be discussed in public 
>> _without_ being molested by people who only want to raise their google 
>> page rank.
> 
> You seem to have problems with your English.

yeah, sure, because you don't understand a perfect english sentence it's 
my fault. ROTFL

> In German: Bei einer
> öffentlichen Diskussion können sie (die Mitglieder von core) nichts dummes
> sagen ohne sich zu blamieren. That has nothing whatsomever to do with
> what non-members of core may or may not say, and is totally orthogonal to
> setting a list readonly or moderated.

auf diese art und weise kann die einfuehrung eines neuen schedulers 
(ABI, als weiteres beispiel kontextuell bezogen auf schon getaetigte 
aussagen, s.o.) in der oeffentlichkeit diskutiert werden _ohne_ von 
leuten, die ohnehin nur ihren google page rank erhoehen wollen, 
belaestigt zu werden.

>> i don't think there's any need to explain the internet to NetBSD developers.
>>
>>> Look at any parliament if you want to
>>> see what too public 'discussions' are: people holding speeches at each 
>>> other.
>> err, what? you can attend to _any_ event that is held by a legal party 
>> in germany as long as it's not an inner-party event. as soon as public 
>> things are discussed you can go there and _at least_ listen.
> 
> And exactly that is the PROBLEM for our case. I do not need a core that
> discusses two or three persons at a time privately over dinner
> whatever they don't have enough background or opinion about (like our
> dear parliament delegates do) and then hold a staged show discussion
> for the benefit of the daft public.

nobody demanded this. please _read_ before you answer. in a perfect 
world you even could _understand_ before you answer.

> If you think that anything gets
> actually decided in these public parliament discussions,

nobody said it. it was _you_ to introduce the parliament to show an 
analogy where 'no discussion happens' but just hot air is being produced.

> you know a
> lot less about politics than a grown person should.

i'm member of a german party, and i'm even elected member of the board 
for some districts of berlin.

to ensure everyone get's the picture: in germany the legislative (from 
lex, legis; latin) is rotten and suffers from multiple cancers named 
McKinsey, Roland Berger etc. yes, it's true: if there's a new law being 
introduced in germany you can be sure it has all the fascist roots as it 
has had for over 70 years now. if it's allowed to throw litter on the 
street or use mines against civilists, it's all being decided by 
DaimlerChrysler, Siemens and other huge companies or multinational 
corporations. fascism is one major ingredient for imperialists.

but that doesn't mean NetBSD has to have the same rotten body as our 
parliament...? :)

>>>> 	- why can't sub-projects requiring things like NDAs be handled
>>>> 	  quite apart from the NetBSD project?
>>> You want to found a new legal entity (a new corporation) each time an NDA
>>> needs signing? Who's to pay for the setup? that costs money!
>> blobs -> pkgsrc.
>>
>> furthermore: why sign NDAs? does OpenBSD on a regular basis?
> 
> I know that you consider 'compromise' a taint. I don't.

not my problem. never saw the compromise of a partly pregnancy, and 
never will. sometimes a compromise is just not possible.

(...)

timo (quite amused and equipped with new popcorn :)