Subject: Re: Final plug for extra utilities
To: Eric Radman <>
From: matthew sporleder <>
List: netbsd-users
Date: 09/01/2006 22:06:05
On 9/1/06, Eric Radman <> wrote:
> On 12:12 Fri 01 Sep     , David Brownlee wrote:
> > >
> > >Is there any chance of a consensus on this idea: adding another set to
> > >NetBSD's base distribution called plus.tgz or util.tgz.
> > >
> >       I think a better approach would be to help integrate pkgsrc
> >       installation into sysinst, so when people install NetBSD they
> >       can select those, or any other available binary packages.
> I think I left this too open-ended.  Allow me to try to clarify what my
> goal is for this suggestion:
> If a binary package is available, pkg_add is very easy, and there really
> isn't any need to make the installer any more complicated than it is
> already. The problem here is that binaries are often not available.
> This happens when installing a snapshot, or on older/slower systems that
> do not yet (ever?) have binaries posted.
> Here are the reasons for each of the packages I listed:
> sudo:
>     I would argue that this tool should be forced on every UNIX admin.
>     My experience is universal: su encourages people to just keep boxes
>     logged in as root, and makes it seem that handing out root passwords
>     is ok. Anyone should be allowed to type dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sd0d
>     if they really want to, but # prompts on screens is not a matter of
>     discretion.

Not needed.

> userppp:
>     This is really the ifconfig and dhclient of the dialup/pppoe world.
>     The first and most basic task in setting up a NetBSD box is to get
>     it connected to the Internet. This package makes it possible and
>     fast not matter what means are available.

I agree with this.

> tcsh:
>     Nice to have for those who don't like ksh, but really just a nice
>     331K perk.

We already have too many shells.

> lynx:
>     Without a very basic web browser, two computers are usually required
>     to do an install at a given location for the simple reason that
>     there's no simple way to look up information:
>         * FTP/CVS mirrors
>         * Documentation for specific platforms
>         * Web searches on specific issues
>     Yes, once I know where to download something from I can use ftp, but
>     only after I know where the URL is. There are also special cases
>     that I've encountered, for example, at a hotel or a school district
>     where you need to sign into the Internet gateway before you can use
>     their Internet connection to finish your business.

w3m is MIT-licensed and a little easier to use, in my opinion.  I also
think it should be included.

> perl:
>     I'm revoking this one. Perl is too large and complicated, and it's
>     not required.

Yes, operating systems that include perl/java/python/etc are just
forcing someone to maintain two versions on their system and confuse
everyone a lot.

> I appreciate the response by everyone on this topic.