Subject: Re: The future of NetBSD
To: Thorsten Glaser <tg@mirbsd.de>
From: Harpalus a Como <harpalus.como@gmail.com>
List: netbsd-users
Date: 08/31/2006 09:54:31
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I'm just a lurker on the OpenBSD list, but I think Charles is right about
Linux. The code is better then people give it credit for, and considering
it's vast popularity and what all it's accomplished, the "bazaar" model has
worked wonders. I'm not advocating Linux, I'm just pointing out that
considering where Linux is, where it's headed, who all is backing it, I
really don't see it stagnating or dying anytime soon.
If I'm correct, that's also what Charles thinks NetBSD needs among other
things, to look at their model for inspiration. I agree.
As Ingo said: I'm not a developer. Back to lurking.
On 8/31/06, Thorsten Glaser <tg@mirbsd.de> wrote:
>
> Benny Siegert dixit:
>
> > A very pessimistic article but well worth a read:
> >
> > http://mail-index.netbsd.org/netbsd-users/2006/08/30/0016.html
>
> You could've just replied to it so that the References: header
> can be perused. I've changed this mail to reply to it for threading.
>
>
> Charles M. Hannum dixit:
>
> >Much of this early structure (CVS, web site, cabal, etc.) was copied
> >verbatim by other open source (this term not being in wide use yet)
> >projects -- even the form of the project name and the term "core". This
> >later became a kind of standard template for starting up an open source
> >project.
> >
> >Unfortunately, we made some mistakes here. As we've seen over the
> >years, one of the great successes of Linux was that it had a strong
> >leader, who set goals and directions, and was able to get people to do
> >what he wanted -- or find someone else to do it.
>
> On the other hand, the "bazaar" model of Linux leads to bad code
> and no well-defined APIs. While it's true that the "core-team"
> model _might_ benefit from a strong leadership, care should be
> taken to avoid Linux' "success" because it'll be its failure
> soon enough. (I mean, hey, 5 new kernels in 2 days, wtf?)
>
>
> Nick Guenther dixit:
>
> > Um. Wow. I think Theo wins.
>
> OpenBSD has had MicroBSD forked off twice, MirOS and ekkoBSD too.
>
>
> Travers Buda dixit:
>
> > As for Charles M. Hannum: fork!
>
> I don't think so, as long as he can improve the inner status of
> the NetBSD project. Forking is the solution if you're outside,
> want to improve and are ignored, or, if you're inside but don't
> see your interesting new ideas being accepted well or fitting
> within the project's overall policy (DragonFly).
>
>
> Andy Ball dixit:
>
> > suspend and resume work on my laptop. I know that work is being done
> > on PowerNow! for AMD K6-2+, Athlon etc.
>
> Incidentally, Martin Vigiard's PowerNow work showed up in
> OpenBSD and FreeBSD. first, in NetBSD. last.
>
>
> @OpenBSD people:
>
> I did leave this mailing list, I'm just keeping the Cc: list.
>
>
> bye,
> //mirabile
> --
> I believe no one can invent an algorithm. One just happens to hit upon it
> when God enlightens him. Or only God invents algorithms, we merely copy
> them.
> If you don't believe in God, just consider God as Nature if you won't deny
> existence. -- Coywolf Qi Hunt
>
>
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<div>I'm just a lurker on the OpenBSD list, but I think Charles is right about Linux. The code is better then people give it credit for, and considering it's vast popularity and what all it's accomplished, the "bazaar" model has worked wonders. I'm not advocating Linux, I'm just pointing out that considering where Linux is, where it's headed, who all is backing it, I really don't see it stagnating or dying anytime soon.
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>If I'm correct, that's also what Charles thinks NetBSD needs among other things, to look at their model for inspiration. I agree.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>As Ingo said: I'm not a developer. Back to lurking.<br> </div>
<div><span class="gmail_quote">On 8/31/06, <b class="gmail_sendername">Thorsten Glaser</b> <<a href="mailto:tg@mirbsd.de">tg@mirbsd.de</a>> wrote:</span>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">Benny Siegert dixit:<br><br>> A very pessimistic article but well worth a read:<br>><br>> <a href="http://mail-index.netbsd.org/netbsd-users/2006/08/30/0016.html">
http://mail-index.netbsd.org/netbsd-users/2006/08/30/0016.html</a><br><br>You could've just replied to it so that the References: header<br>can be perused. I've changed this mail to reply to it for threading.<br><br><br>Charles M. Hannum dixit:
<br><br>>Much of this early structure (CVS, web site, cabal, etc.) was copied<br>>verbatim by other open source (this term not being in wide use yet)<br>>projects -- even the form of the project name and the term "core". This
<br>>later became a kind of standard template for starting up an open source<br>>project.<br>><br>>Unfortunately, we made some mistakes here. As we've seen over the<br>>years, one of the great successes of Linux was that it had a strong
<br>>leader, who set goals and directions, and was able to get people to do<br>>what he wanted -- or find someone else to do it.<br><br>On the other hand, the "bazaar" model of Linux leads to bad code<br>and no well-defined APIs. While it's true that the "core-team"
<br>model _might_ benefit from a strong leadership, care should be<br>taken to avoid Linux' "success" because it'll be its failure<br>soon enough. (I mean, hey, 5 new kernels in 2 days, wtf?)<br><br><br>Nick Guenther dixit:
<br><br>> Um. Wow. I think Theo wins.<br><br>OpenBSD has had MicroBSD forked off twice, MirOS and ekkoBSD too.<br><br><br>Travers Buda dixit:<br><br>> As for Charles M. Hannum: fork!<br><br>I don't think so, as long as he can improve the inner status of
<br>the NetBSD project. Forking is the solution if you're outside,<br>want to improve and are ignored, or, if you're inside but don't<br>see your interesting new ideas being accepted well or fitting<br>within the project's overall policy (DragonFly).
<br><br><br>Andy Ball dixit:<br><br>> suspend and resume work on my laptop. I know that work is being done<br>> on PowerNow! for AMD K6-2+, Athlon etc.<br><br>Incidentally, Martin Vigiard's PowerNow work showed up in
<br>OpenBSD and FreeBSD. first, in NetBSD. last.<br><br><br>@OpenBSD people:<br><br>I did leave this mailing list, I'm just keeping the Cc: list.<br><br><br>bye,<br>//mirabile<br>--<br>I believe no one can invent an algorithm. One just happens to hit upon it
<br>when God enlightens him. Or only God invents algorithms, we merely copy them.<br>If you don't believe in God, just consider God as Nature if you won't deny<br>existence. -- Coywolf Qi Hunt<br><br></blockquote>
</div><br>
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