At 04:15 PM 11/24/03 , Chris wrote:
>Manuel Bouyer wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Nov 21, 2003 at 09:11:01AM -0600, Chris wrote:
>> 
>>>Here is the exact message -
>>>
>>>ne0 at pcmcia1 function 0
>>>ne0 (manf  0000149 prod 00004530) cis D-Link DFE-670TXD: can't match 
>>>ethernet vendor code
>> 
>> 
>> Unfortunably it doesn't say what the ethernet vendor code is.
>> Do you know the MAC address of this adapter ?
>>>From windows you can see it with ipconfig /all
>> 
>
>Well Duh - like, I can see that.
>Yanno - I'm not so sure you're even able to help me out here.
>I mean, IPCONFIG is Windows. What the hell-o are you telling me to do 
>that for when you ought to be saying, IFCONFIG.
>
>Anyways - Don't be offended if I decline your help there Manuel. I'll 
>look elsewhere.
>
>
>-- 
>Best regards,
>                  Chris


I assume you're not on the list and don't realize that Manuel is one of the
most knowledgeable and helpful people on the NetBSD team.

He could have given a bit more of an explanation. But, while he's happy to
help, he only spoon-feeds those who really need it (newbs, if you will). If
you would have tried ifconfig, I'm sure you would have noticed that it
didn't give you a MAC address. About 1/5 second of typing, a couple of
seconds scanning for the MAC and not finding it, and <who knows how long>
seconds before realization sets it. That's how much time it would have
taken to answer your own question as to why he was telling you to use
Windows and ipconfig. In a later email, Manuel asks for the ethernet
address of the card, but specifically says that he needs it so that he can
get the vendor code. Again, instead of looking up what an ethernet vendor
code is and supplying it, you had a knee-jerk reaction to the request for
your MAC address. It's nice to be security conscious, but without
sufficient knowledge, attention to detail, thoroughness, openmindedness,
willingness to learn, and humbleness, success is much less likely. You'll
also come to have less faith in a MAC address ;)  

Reading this email and following the next few in the thread, I can't help
but think of the numerous examples in literature, movies, etc. where the
student presumes to teach the master. The definition of sophomoric seems
perfectly displayed. BTW, the definition at www.m-w.com is much better than
that at dictionary.com. Even if you know the word, I suggest you look at
the m-w definition (especially because I'm actually trying to be helpful,
not inflammatory). Many of us have been there, it's an easy place to go
when you're intelligent; but most on the NetBSD help list have either
reflected on such actions at some point and changed their attitude, or been
lucky enough to not have followed that path.

Also, Manuel's offer to do the update was surely at least partly motivated
by the desire to expedite its release back to the community. I hope that
the effort you put in to improving your system will be sent back to the
community that provided the system to you. It would be appreciated.

My apologies to the list for continuing the thread. I hope I wasn't too
preaching too much; I guess I just couldn't help myself. Also, it's
entirely possible that I've misconstrued the competency level of racerx and
attributed to ignorance what should rightfully be blamed entirely on
attitude, thus negating half of the point of my post. But, that still
leaves the other half; and in any case I post with hopes that somebody will
find it useful someday.

Good luck in your endeavors.

-Tim

p.s. I realize, after letting this email sit awhile and re-reading it
before sending, that the reason I took offense and wrote this email is
because of the bad name that is still often associated with getting help in
many open source forums (at the least, such a view is still being used as
FUD against the community). The NetBSD-help list is an exemplary specimen
of the quality, responsive help available, and it irks me to have that
effort dismissed.