thus Garrett D'Amore spake:
> Timo Schoeler wrote:
>> thus Bill Studenmund spake:
>>> On Thu, Aug 31, 2006 at 03:17:15PM +0200, Timo Schoeler wrote:
>>>> (...)
>>>>> I don't see a "discussion" happening here - you are just trying to
>>>>> belittle and shout people down,
>>>> i) i'm not shouting anybody down (makes me interested in your
>>>> definition of 'shouting' or 'shouting down'), ii) people != you,
>>>> plurar vs. singular.
>>> It sure seems you are. Your response to disagreement is to continue
>>> speaking forcefully
>> sure. i do have my opinion (here: wrt blobs).
>>
>> there are dozens, if not hundreds of subscribers of the mailing list
>> that obviously inherently agree with blobs being evil. otherwise they
>> would respond (even if it'd be only a fraction of them, you could see
>> some emails) to this thread.
> 
> I contend that this is a false assumption.  I had not responded to this
> point, simply because the tone of discussion had left one of productive
> reasoning, and I didn't see any reason to get involved.

entering the discussion earlier might have saved the 'tone of 
discussion' from losing 'productive reasoning'.

> Of course I would prefer to have _source_, but I also recognize there
> are cases for binary blobs.  I believe ath(4) is one such case.  I've
> worked with another WIFI architecture that used blobs as well, and it
> worked out okay.
> 
> My biggest complaint with blobs is lack of portability, but in at least
> one case (ath(4)) the supplier has gone out of his way to make sure the
> blob is available for any platform that might have the hardware.
> 
> I totally disagree with any stance we take that prevents binary blobs
> from being used with the operating system.  It will prevent NetBSD from
> being used in a number of scenarios going forward.
> 
> If folks want NetBSD to thrive, the best way to do so is not to go
> around trying to piss off vendors.

they piss themselves off.

> We represent such a tiny percentage
> of marketshare that most vendors won't think twice over blowing us off. 
> That would make contributions like my recent radeonfb contribution
> (which was developed from NDA docs and sources, and had to have ATI's
> approval to be open sourced) much, much harder.
> 
> There, I've said my piece on the matter, and I will probably not say
> anything else on it.  But don't take my silence as agreement with your
> position, please.

sure, no problem.

as it becomes clear where NetBSD stands and its goals, maybe the 
projects goals might need a revision? :)

-- 
Timo Schoeler | http://riscworks.net/~tis | timo.schoeler@riscworks.net
RISCworks -- Perfection is a powerful message
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Frankie says: Relax