On Sun, Mar 27, 2005 at 04:17:03PM +0200, Zbigniew Baniewski wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 27, 2005 at 04:44:24PM +0200, Wouter Klouwen wrote:
> 
> > I have never had any of these problems. My $TERM is `xterm'.
> 
> xterm is for X11 - didn't you notice, that I was asked for console?

Yes, you did ask for console. I have no answer for you other than that I
have noticed those issues with the vt220 terminal type (and other things
about wscons that make it seem lacking), but I do not find them to be much
of a problem, since I prefer X.

> > This most likely depends upon badly created applications which assume one
> > terminal type.
> 
> Possible - but still I'm reporting a problem.
> 
> > Wow. You use moused? Have you not heard of X?
> 
> Have you heard of people preferring console mode?

I have, but in your case - you've obviously got a working keyboard, mouse,
and display good enough for watching TV - I don't see why you would prefer
console.

> > > 7. Using my favourite text editor - joe 
> > 
> > Well, there's your problem.
> 
> Such answer can be given to ANY user of ANY broken package from NetBSD
> packages collection.

It wasn't broken by NetBSD, it was broken by the joe developers. I use joe
as well, and I've seen the same thing. I deal with it by using it inside
screen if I'm in console. It works fine then. The problem first appeared
when joe 3.0 made it into pkgsrc - joe 3.x does syntax highlighting that the
earlier versions did not do - and I'm assuming that it is related to joe not
knowing how to highlight whatever it wants to highlight in the terminal type
you're using.

I don't remember the setting, but I'm willing to bet that if you turned off
syntax highlighting, the "OOPS"'s would stop appearing.

> Is such attitude normal among NetBSD users?

When you're suggesting that, in essence, we turn NetBSD into Linux, probably
more often than not, yes.

> > No. NetBSD comes standard with sh and csh. More then you'll ever need to get
> > pkgsrc and install your shell of choice. tcsh or bash by default would just
> > be bloat.
> 
> Any more functionality, than obsolete c-shell gives - "would just be bloat"?

Yes, when it is quite easy to install tcsh or bash from pkgsrc or from a binary
package. There is absolutely no reason to have them in the base install.
tcsh is usually the first package I install on a new NetBSD machine, but I
don't always install it. I don't want to have it on systems where I have no
real need for it, which would be the case if it were part of the base
install. Thus, in that case, it would be bloat.

> > mc is anything but essential. A lot of third party applications are
> > available through pkgsrc, and there are prebuilt binairies which may be
> > installed from ftp.netbsd.org, or a local mirror.
> 
> mc is VERY useful - and I didn't find prebuilt binary of mc. There were
> compilation problems.

I suggest you contact the package maintainer.

> > > 12. xmradio utility seem to be broken
> > Hardly NetBSD's fault.
> 
> I don't know, whether it's system fault, or maintainer's fault - just
> reporting a problem, which needs to be fixed. Or perhaps it's "my problem"
> too?

I suggest you contact the package maintainer.

> > Configuration error. I suggest you read the xawtv documentation.
> 
> Read it already.
> 
> > Fixtv error.
> 
> ...which need to be fixed by NetBSD-package maintainer. And just because of
> this I wrote that.

If it needs fixing by the package maintainer, you need to be talking to
them, not trolling current-users.

> > Are you serious? pkgsrc may have it's difficulties, but to suggest such a
> > replacement?!
> 
> Why not replace that (perhaps still not-so-very-bad) system by the better
> one - when that better one is available?

There is nothing wrong with pkgsrc that a little knowledge of how to use it
won't fix. I have one complaint about pkgsrc, the fact that updating
packages sucks, but I'm not silly enough to suggest that we throw the baby
out with the bathwater instead of simply fixing make update.

> > > 16. Does there exist any JRE for NetBSD (as plugin for Firefox) - but not
> > > for using in "linux-emulation mode"?
> > 
> > No. Blame Sun.
> 
> I'm not looking for anybody to blame - I'm looking for JRE.

You won't find it until Sun sees fit to support NetBSD. Until then you'll
have to use it under linux emulation. I do it, it works fine for me. "Blame
Sun" is the correct response - it is not NetBSD's fault that no decent
NetBSD-native JRE exists.

> > > 17. Perhaps somebody can tell me the way to transfer entire installed NetBSD
> > > from one hdd to another (it's installed together with FreeDOS and NetBSD
> > > bootmanager)? Or even better: to make copy on the CD - and to install it back
> > > from such backup-CD to other hdd?
> > 
> > dd.
> 
> dd? From - let's say - 6 GB hdd to 40 GB hdd, with quite different geometry?
> Thanks a lot for such "tip".
> 
> Perhaps someone a little more experienced?

I don't know whether or not I am more experienced than the other poster, but
my suggestion would be something along these lines:

1) install both hard drives, boot from the one you're using now, but boot up
   in single-user mode.
2) export TERM=vt100 (if you're using sh, setenv TERM vt100 if you told it
   to use csh)
3) fdisk and disklabel the new drive as you see fit. Mount the new drive's
   netbsd root on /mnt, and whatever other filesystems on the new drive under
   that (ie, if you have a /usr partition on the new drive too, mkdir
   /mnt/usr then mount it on /mnt/usr)
4) (cd / && tar cf - .) | (cd /mnt && tar xpf -)
5) run installboot to install the boot sector on the new drive's netbsd root
   partition.
6) try and boot from the new drive. I haven't used FreeDOS personally for
   more than making bios-update floppies, so I don't know how your setup
   will be different; likely something in these instructions is incorrect
   for your needs. This is just a rough summary of what I did to transfer
   the OS from a dying hard disk to another disk in one of my NetBSD
   machines.

- Sean

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