Subject: RE: IPv6 Comment
To: Feico Dillema <>
From: Gregg C Levine <>
List: current-users
Date: 09/04/2000 20:29:48
Hello again from Gregg C Levine usually with Jedi Knight Computers
I see you missed my point. I am referring to the switched multi-gigabit
hardware, exactly what you are referring to. AT&T won't be out of the
diallup service provider business. In fact, their service just got voted A+,
again. And not on the account of their helpdesk either, which does not
contain the intelligence of a population of primates. You are also
forgetting that historically it is only within the last five years, that the
majority of European country PSTNs, have been part of their goverments. A
lot of them, are now privatey owned companies. Oh, and most of those
countries do not have the insanely stupid goverment regs, that we have here,
most of them are left over from the analog days of telephony. By those same
five years, even the largest service provider here, expects to be fully
digital. As for your claims regarding mobile phones, guess who, and where,
invented them? It most certainly wasn't a company in your country. (End of
rant!) As I said, both of you are both right, and wrong, for all of the
Gregg C Levine
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Feico Dillema []
> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2000 8:05 PM
> To: Gregg C Levine
> Cc: NetBSD-current Discussion List
> Subject: Re: IPv6 Comment
> On Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 04:54:48PM -0400, Gregg C Levine wrote:
> > Hello from Gregg C Levine writing for myself
> > How many of you attend the continuing education seminars that Cisco
> > provides? I do. It happens that, yes they do have such
> hardware, and yes it
> > is expensive, but probably not as much as you want to think.
> Do you mean a little 100Mbs home-router here, or a 15Mps Cisco 6500
> switching router or a 80Gbs-switching Cisco-12000 GSR? I'm talking
> about the latter two switching at full multi-Gbs linespeeds.
> > Also, most of the opinions that were posted here, are both
> right, and wrong,
> > for all of the same reasons.
> I think you are wrong here ;-}
> > Renumbering for example: Forget it. It really is not a
> > problem, unless you are that guy who does it, at the ISP level.
> We're not talking about renumbering your dial-up machine at home here.
> Most dial-up users effectively renumber each time they call in. No
> problem there. The renumbering nightmare is for those network
> operators hosting 1000s or tens of thousands of host machines with
> static IP-addresses assigned to them (although deploying DHCP in such
> networks can be of great help here too), and for those having to
> renumber routers in a network of non-trivial size.
> > My ISP is aware of it, (IPv6), but at the dynamically
> addressed, level, they
> > do not want to try it, for diallups, which is what I use
> currently. I should say,
> > that being aware is the only thing they are, they have not told
> me directly
> > of any plans to participate.
> If your ISP would hire me for advise on deploying IPv6, I'd say don't
> do it even though I'm a bit of an IPv6 advocate, as it does not make much
> sense for a dial-up service in most cases. But over here, I'd also add
> that if they stick with providing dial-up telephone/ISDN service
> they will be out of business within 5 years. Telephony over IP is the
> (near) future, the other way around is a dinosaur waiting to become
> fossilized. Come on, what would you chose if offered at approx. the
> same monthly cost; 10 to 100Mbs 24 hour a day at a fixed rate with
> millisecond latency to your providers WWW/ftp/video/game-servers or
> your plain old telephone dial-up (or a patched up version of it like
> ISDN or ADSL). My next mobile-phone/palm/whatever will already have
> 2Mbs connectivity, a year or two from now.
> Gosh, I don't even have a fixed-phone line anymore since last
> time I moved
> house 2 years ago; a mobile phone and a 3Mbs radiolink at home
> are a quite nice replacement already. Still, 3Mbs with 20ms latency
> even cannot compete with full 10Mbs Ether into my home. This will be
> the choice for many if not most of the people in the western world and
> the far east within the next three to five years. I live basically at
> the end of the world (about 800 kilometers within the polar circle ;),
> and I'm pretty sure I'll have that 10Mbs or 100Mbs in my home within
> three years. You all probably live in much more densely populated,
> less remote and more civilized parts of the world than I do, and you
> expect less than this to enter your home over this time period? Ok, I
> live in a country with more mobile phones in use than fixed-phones and
> more meters of fiber per citizen in the ground than most others, and
> work and worked with ISPs whose biggest problem is to find enough
> manpower to put all that fiber in the ground and setup all those
> routers to get those customers in the wait-queue connected. I
> just don't see much reason to believe the rest of the world is moving
> in a different direction, quite the contrary... And on this path any
> solution that complicates network maintenance is evil and NATPT
> is way beyond that. These ISPs are definately interested in IPv6,
> and their
> greatest worry is where to find competent manpower in time to make the
> transition feasible.
> 3Mbs is nice for traditional applications and I love it being able to
> listen to my mp3-ified CD-collection stored on my home-machine when
> I'm at work, doing off-site backups over it, and comfortably using CVS
> over it in both directions (oh yeah, this radionet is IPv6 only). But
> it's just not quite enough for more demanding new applications, like
> good-quality telephony, TV and video.
> It's really quite amazing how fast you get used to decent connectivity.
> Every time I'm traveling and need to use a regular modem dial-in
> service with my laptop, I find it increasingly difficult to believe
> how people can be comfortable with such speeds for daily usage, even
> for just fetching your email. ;-}
> So, again, for the success of IPv6 I think it is quite irrelevant
> whether dial-up ISPs will ever deploy IPv6 or not.
> In my timezone it's way past bedtime now, so time to shut up for me.
> Goodnight,
> Feico.