Subject: Re: RFC: Simple screen editor for NetBSD
To: Thor Lancelot Simon <firstname.lastname@example.org>
From: Marc Schneiders <email@example.com>
Date: 01/08/2000 09:12:44
On Fri, 7 Jan 2000, Thor Lancelot Simon wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 07, 2000 at 09:21:43PM +0000, David Brownlee wrote:
> > On Fri, 7 Jan 2000, Jukka Marin wrote:
> > > Hmm. There's this place using NetBSD, where no-one knows how to use
> > > vi. It's always a challenge to get a new machine up and running when
> > > you have to guide them keystroke by keystroke on the phone when they're
> > > editing /etc/rc.confor /etc/group or doing vipw to get the system up so
> > > I can log on from the network.
> > >
> > Another good argument for having a simple editor present.
> > Attempted summary of discussion to date:
> And a nicely biased summary, at that.
> A "simple editor" -- which means, AFAICT, an editor with a user
> interface tuned for f-ckwits -- is a SUBSTANTIAL ANNOYANCE to the
> experienced Unix user, AFAICT. It certainly is to me, and as far as
> I can tell it is to plenty of others as well, to hear people groan
> when confronted with 'ee' on a FreeBSD system. I'm *not* an idiot.
> I do *not* want a machine, when in its default state, to present
> me with 'ee' when I type 'vipw'.
Exactly what OS gives you `ee' when you enter `vipw'? FreeBSD 220.127.116.11
and 4.0 (and perhaps all versions inbetween) do not by default.
> I think the full-on stupidest suggestion in this thread was the
> one that ee 'not be the default for anything, just set EDITOR=ee
> and VISUAL=ee in /.profile'. That's *exactly* the default that
> is so irritating on FreeBSD.
This is the default /.profile of FreeBSD 18.104.22.168
echo 'erase ^H, kill ^U, intr ^C'
stty crt erase ^H kill ^U intr ^C
And this the one of 4.0 current:
No mention of `ee'. As far as I can remember `ee' is only used during
install when keying in the greeting message for anonymous ftp and
/etc/exports, if you choose to have nfs and anonymous ftp.
> Also, I build machines with NetBSD installed on 8MB and even 4MB
> flash disks. 100K of new bloat that I have to cut out is hardly
> welcome in this application...
> Appealing to naive users is great. But please, let's not forget
> that most such users will just use Windoze or Linux anyway, and
> that most of our _existing_ userbase is quite Unix-savvy and
> has no need for this particular crutch.
`ee' was nice for me when I came to Unix a year ago. I am not sure why
I don't use it anymore. Probably partly because I cannot use it on the
other BSD's :-)
propro 4:56am up 8 days, 6:45, load average: 2.03 2.07 2.04